Sink tip info and question

[castaway]

So after a day on the water with David, I learned that using regular lead core line works great for a sink tip.

I now use lead core trolling line... the neat thing about this stuff is that A) it gets you down fast and B) is really cheap, you can buy a entire spool (30 yards) from the big box store for like 15 bucks.. the spool is more then I will use in a lifetime.

So my question is...

When using this added weight on the end of your line, does it help to underline the flyline?

or even use a level line?

[KRoberts1]

I've experimented with the stuff several years ago using it as a head and braided mono as a shooting line. It was cheap and semi successful. draw back was the kinkyness when a poor cast was made. The kink was hard to smooth out and usually broke the lead core. The trolling line has now been regulated to short (4' to 10' sinktip heads) to use on the floating line. I have since gone to the Teeny 24' integrated head lines. I really like the T130 on my 4wt for streamers on the O and the Kern. No where near the problem I had with the trolling line.

If you do an archieve search on Dan Blanton's website for "lead lite or lead core lite", you'll find a lot of work & research done by "GES" (can't remember his name) on his use of lead core trolling line heads for Naci white bass. Seems to me, 24' foot head (7 gr/ft = 168 gr) was the magic number for 5/6wt rods. Anything shorter had some dumping tendencies at the end onthe cast.

keith

[RichardCullip]

So after a day on the water with David, I learned that using regular lead core line works great for a sink tip.

I now use lead core trolling line... the neat thing about this stuff is that A) it gets you down fast and B) is really cheap, you can buy a entire spool (30 yards) from the big box store for like 15 bucks.. the spool is more then I will use in a lifetime.

So my question is...

When using this added weight on the end of your line, does it help to underline the flyline?

or even use a level line?

There's some magic numbers involved in setting up sink-tips and shooting heads. The magic comes with an understanding that the AFTMA line weights are based on the mass (weight) of the first 30ft of fly line and most modern roads are designed to fully load with more line than that in the air (typically 40-45 of line). This gives the opportunity to up-line or concentrate more mass in a shorter length of line. Most 4wts can handle ~150 grns, 5wts ~200 grns, 6wts ~ 240 grns. 7wts ~280 grns, 8wts ~310 grns, 9wts ~360 grns .... One rule of thumb is that modern rods typically can handle a line that's 2 line weights above the rod's rating as long as you have 30ft or less line in the air while casting. There's another magic number which is the length of head to concentrate that mass over. Casts tend to get dumpy (loop fully unrolls before the cast is done) with heads less than 24-25ft in length and most casters have a hard time handling more than 30ft of line in the air.

So keep the length of the head btwn 24 and 30ft and make sure that that length of line doesn't have more mass than your rod can handle and you will be in great shape.

With that semi-confusing background, my question for you would be how much line will you have in the air (extended beyond the rod tip) while you are casting your lead-core sink-tip?

Make sure that the amount of line doesn't have more mass than your rod can handle. If not, you'll be in good shape and should be able to make a decent cast with minimal effort. Too light a line, too heavy a line, too short a line and/or too long a line will lead to frustration and grief.

Of course, being a world-class caster like David always helps.

Hope this helps.

[castaway]

When casting the lead core head on my floating line I usually only make short casts (Owens, EW, Kern mouth, etc)

I just have noticed that the sage ZXL really gets bent over on the back cast when trying to stretch it out a bit... I am only putting maybe 5-6 feet of the lead core line on the tip.

I feel good about my nymphing techniques, but my streamer work could use some improvement - as I do not catch many fish that way.

The reason I like to use floating line with the sink tip is because it allows me to "mend" and get some drift in my streamer as it sinks... toss up some mends to get the streamer down quick, and let it drift a bit before swinnging it in....

I was out chasing steelhead last weekend, and used a sink tip the entire time (only got 2 small 1/2 pounders - more like 10")...

[briansII]

When casting the lead core head on my floating line I usually only make short casts (Owens, EW, Kern mouth, etc)

I just have noticed that the sage ZXL really gets bent over on the back cast when trying to stretch it out a bit... I am only putting maybe 5-6 feet of the lead core line on the tip.

I feel good about my nymphing techniques, but my streamer work could use some improvement - as I do not catch many fish that way.

The reason I like to use floating line with the sink tip is because it allows me to "mend" and get some drift in my streamer as it sinks... toss up some mends to get the streamer down quick, and let it drift a bit before swinnging it in....

I was out chasing steelhead last weekend, and used a sink tip the entire time (only got 2 small 1/2 pounders - more like 10")...

If your chucking streamers a short distance, I think what you are doing is just fine. Lets you get the streamer down, and also allows you to switch back to a floater in a relatively short amount of time. The formulas for shooting heads is not as important in short range fishing, as it is in making long cast presentations. Like others said, leadcore trolling line isn't ideal, but if you got it, might as well use it. Ideally, you should try short sections of Rio's T8 or T11. It doesn't kink, and is much more supple. I'm guessin' you are getting close to the max you want to load your ZXL with the trolling line. The T8 should help in that regard.

Personally, in those situations where I want to switch back and forth, I just use weighted streamers, split shot, and skip the sinktip. When I dedicate myself to using streamers, I go with a type 6 full sinking line, or a heavy sinktip, like SA's Streamer Express. I can still mend with these lines, but it does need to be done early. BTW, for trout i'm typically making a downstream mend, to get the current to swim the fly downstream, along a seam or far bank.

So far this year, i've fished streamers more than anything on my local river. It's been very productive.

briansII

[castaway]

Thank you guys for the great info...

Also, I found that when casting down stream.. I can mend left....then right.. then left - and get the streamer to swim back and forth across the river.... still I dont catch much with streamers. I will keep trying though.