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Stocking the Kern

For topics that don't seem to have a home elsewhere.

Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby RiverRat » February 12th, 2010, 9:26 am

wildfly wrote:
castaway wrote:Im making a point.... people who do not support stocking and write long winded responses on internet forms might be better served using that SAME amount of energy and write it down on a piece of paper and mail it away... instead of coming on forums - complaining, and doing nothing.

Over the past 2 years I have really seen some odd behavior from people in regards to the Kern... when the going got tough, many just took their ball and went home... Instead they abandon the river when it needed them most.. and for that... some credibility was lost.. I will always be on the kern... I will be the last man standing.

with that I give you a song about devotion..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ScbqH1Fz0&feature=fvw


I choose not to write a letter - well.... because I think the situation is being handled as good as possible. (as good as possible being the key phrase)


Dude. I've created a new forum that is a place for concise information. I've also invited ALL OF YOU to have a forum on this at my house or on the river or anywhere. I would like to get everyone involved, and what I can do NOW (I can't go back into the past) is this. However, no one except KC has said he was interested in this. Now, do I have any other takers? I'm not trying to start some alternative movement, I'm just trying to figure out how to get FFA members involved, and if we can all get up to date and figure out what to do and where to go via a simple, friendly meeting, wouldn't that be good?


The local KRFF and SSFF fly clubs are the place to go for this. Both clubs are joing together on projects this year with CAlTrout and the FFF. I have so many meetings, I'm on four boards and have young kids, and I don't need to join another faction, for lack of a better term. Friends Of the Hatchery is pretty much defunct right now. I work hand in hand with Richard Rowe who is the wheel behind the KRVR. It used to be our very own Barrie Mann. Lot of good info on that site.

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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby castaway » February 12th, 2010, 9:27 am

You will see me on the water...
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby RiverRat » February 12th, 2010, 9:35 am

Jon,
Sorry for the public flogging. I was in very bitter mood yesterday knowing that fish were being slaughtered as we were writing our posts. I’m totally conflicted about the stocking of the Kern. You write very coherent and effective letters and look forward to your help on future environmental issues, and not just on the Kern!


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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby RiverRat » February 12th, 2010, 9:42 am

From the CBD thru direct communication with the KRVR.....The CBD is releasing this statement. Professionalism and civility works. Wish I could share with the rest of the story but a back forth has been going on over this statement for two days and working out the proper wording to make everyone happy.

-shane

We are challenging the EIR/EIS over impacts to Native Species. According to Dr. Peter Moyle, the Hardhead Minnow, which is the only known species of concern in the Kern below SCE Fairview Dam, is apparently doing okay in the presence of extensive stocking. There is thus currently a low likelihood of harm to native species in this reach. We are not planning to seek an injunction to stop stocking the Kern River at this time

Noah Greenwald, M.S.
Endangered Species Program Director
Center for Biological Diversity
PO Box 11374
Portland, OR 97211
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby castaway » February 12th, 2010, 9:46 am

If you disagree with that statement.. his name and contact information is included.

Im grummpy because Wiskey flat days is going on, the meat coolers are filling up, women are driving me crazy, and I am at work! :o yep... I said it.
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby RichardCullip » February 12th, 2010, 9:49 am

RiverRat wrote:
wildfly wrote:
Dude. I've created a new forum that is a place for concise information. I've also invited ALL OF YOU to have a forum on this at my house or on the river or anywhere. I would like to get everyone involved, and what I can do NOW (I can't go back into the past) is this. However, no one except KC has said he was interested in this. Now, do I have any other takers? I'm not trying to start some alternative movement, I'm just trying to figure out how to get FFA members involved, and if we can all get up to date and figure out what to do and where to go via a simple, friendly meeting, wouldn't that be good?


The local KRFF and SSFF fly clubs are the place to go for this. Both clubs are joing together on projects this year with CAlTrout and the FFF....

shane


Craig

I'm sorry about not responding to your plea to gather and discuss/plan our collective FFA ideas/actions. Like Shane, I prefer to work thru the local Fly Clubs (KRFF and SSFF) and larger organizations (CalTrout, FFA, TU ...). I will continue to write letters and send money but can't get much more involved than that at this time.
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby rayfound » February 12th, 2010, 9:57 am

The thing that I find interesting about this whole debate, is that, we, as flyfishers are concerned about kern river rainbows, and the detriment stocking causes to their genetic purity. The EIR and the lawsuit was all about protecting the Hardhead minnow - KRRs were never a concern.
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby NorcalBob » February 12th, 2010, 10:19 am

Ray, not exactly. The CBD lawsuit was about protecting species listed as "endangered" from the impacts of stocking non-native hatchery fish, in accordance with environmental laws. The KRR has never been a listed species, or a species desired for listing by CBD. Although, IMNSHO, it should be a listed species........ :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby castaway » February 12th, 2010, 10:21 am

Ray...

its because there are no pure gentic KRR in the 20 mile section anyways... its not a concern. Planting the 20 mile section posses zero threat to the KRR
(this could be debated...but I dont see a threat to the current population of KRR by stocking the 20 mile section)
Now if they wanted to heli-drop a load of fish 20 miles up from JDB.. we would have a problem.

30 years of past stocking already did the damage.. along with over harvesting, and habitat distruction.

The KRR no longer exsists in the 20 mile section...may as well say planting the Owens threatens the KRR...

I think its alomst impossible to re-etablish the KRR to its native and original habitat... you would basicly have to kill the river over and over for a few years... then start restocking with pure KRR... not really viable.

On a side note... the hatchery is raising pure strain goldens for planting around the SF areas!

So thats good news! I think...
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby RiverRat » February 12th, 2010, 10:31 am

rayfound wrote:The thing that I find interesting about this whole debate, is that, we, as flyfishers are concerned about kern river rainbows, and the detriment stocking causes to their genetic purity. The EIR and the lawsuit was all about protecting the Hardhead minnow - KRRs were never a concern.



KRR have not been fully identified. A genetic study funded by the Edison Fisheries Enhancement Trust, aka KRRP, is being done by UC Davis. The study did find what they believe to be geneticly pure and distinct strain up in the headwaters and their final report is due literally anyday. If you read my SSFF EIR comment letter, attached below, I pushed the DFG on the Kern River Rainbow and pushed hard for the KRRP to be completed. The KRFF sent off an almost identical letter.

The KRR up to Kern Falls are hybrids now due to stocking. The KRRP is not a full restoration but eventually only native strains will not be stocked above Fairview Dam.

shane


Jim Starr
California Department of Fish and Game
830 S Street Sacramento, CA 95811
SUBJECT: Draft DFG Hatchery & Stocking Program EIR/EIS comments State Clearinghouse #2008082025

Dear Mr. Starr,
The Southern Sierra Fly Fishers Club (SSFFC) wish to present the following comments for the record involving the Draft Department of Fish and Game Hatchery Environmental Impact Report and Environmental Impact Statement. The SSFFC is headquartered in Kernville, California, the gateway to the Southern Sierra and Golden Trout Wilderness. This nonprofit club with 120 members from several regions of California promotes the awareness, the art and skills of fly fishing, and the conserving of our natural resources.
The SSFFC also would like to stress that the economic impact of the approved EIR/EIS will be significant, no matter the outcome, to the Kern River Valley’s economy due to the fact there are no other local places for people to fish and we encourage the decision makers to think locally as well as county and statewide.
We endorse Preferred Alternative #2 in the draft EIR hoping that the EIR/EIS will be approved and stocking of hatchery-raised trout be resumed in the Kern River, below SCE's KR3 Fairview Diversion Dam. However, we have concerns on the effect of resumed stocking on the native Kern River Rainbow Trout above Fairview Dam. We’d like to see the proposed program known as the Kern River Rainbow Project included in the preferred alternative 2. If only native strain Kern River Rainbow were planted in sections 6-7 above Fairview Dam and nonnative below the dam until the program can supply the entire river, it would be a boost to this CDFG designated HeritageTrout species by mitigating further hybridization from nonnative stocks. Plus, it would help attract fisherman to the Kern River Valley. This would be an economic boost to the local merchants who rely on fishermen as a major source of their economy by attracting visitors to a possible trophy fishery. It would also help the CDFG hatchery operations meet mandates within Assembly (AB) 7 regarding the Heritage and Wild Trout Program, noted in EIR chapter 1, and help avoid future lawsuits.

The Kern River is our home water and it does not make sense to have the stocking ban or only one alternative picked for an entire 85 mile river. The river has several different ecosystems, both natural and artificial from dams and diversions where different species live and thrive. Listed below are the SSFFC’s preferred alternatives along with an endorsement of proposed DFG Trout and Inland Salmon Stocking Evaluation Protocol figure K- 1 to be used for evaluation of stocked waters.
Preference of EIR/EIS Alternatives by Section of River
Kern River Sections
0 (Below Kern River No. 1 powerhouse (KR1)) – ALTERNATIVE 1 (this section was not previously stocked)
1 KR1 to Democrat Dam – Alternative 1 (this section was previously stocked)
2 Democrat Dam to Borel Powerhouse (Sandy Flat) - Alternative 1 (this section was previously stocked)
3 Borel Powerhouse (Keysville Bridge) to Main Dam - ALTERNATIVE 1 (this section was not previously stocked)
4 Lake Isabella (Riverside Park, Kernville) to Kern River No. 3 powerhouse (KR3) - Alternative 1 (this section was previously stocked)
5 KR3 to Fairview Dam - Alternative 1 (this section was previously stocked)
6 Fairview Dam to Johnsondale Bridge – Alternative 2 using CDFG Stocking Evaluation Protocol Figure K-1
7 Above Johnsondale Bridge - Alternative 2 using CDFG Stocking Evaluation Protocol Figure K-1
8 South Fork Kern River - Alternative 2 using CDFG Stocking Evaluation Protocol Figure K-1

Comment on specific EIR comments

EIR Chapter 1 Introduction (page 2)
DFG determined that, as part of its analysis of ongoing fish stocking, it would also include an evaluation of the fish stocking mandates included in Assembly Bill (AB) 7, passed by the State legislature in 2005 and included in the California Fish and Game Code (CFGC) as Section 13007. This section of the CFGC mandates that one third of the fees collected from the issuance of sport fishing licenses be deposited into the Hatchery and Inland Fisheries Fund (HIFF) and used for the management, maintenance, and capital improvement of California’s fish hatchery facilities, the Heritage and Wild Trout Program, other sport fishing activities, and enforcement of these activities.

We believe the Kern River Rainbow Project will help the CDFG hatchery operations meet mandates within Assembly (AB) 7 regarding the Heritage and Wild trout Program.

EIR Chapter 4 (116-117) Effects of Anglers at fishing sites
Recreational fishing activity may deliver a variety of potential impacts on native fish or wildlife or to sensitive ecosystems.

We agree and emphasize that the 2008 stocking ban has led to a direct effect of increasing pressure on the native Kern River Rainbow trout on the North Fork Kern River above Johnsondale Bridge, section 7. Many reports come in from club members who frequent this special regulations section about a huge increase of conventional anglers and an increased harvest of native fish. The CDFG does not have the budget to patrol the backcountry and the current regulations are confusing to anglers and many keep more than the legal limit. We’d like to see the problem of over harvest of the native Kern River Rainbow Trout mitigated through resumed stocking below Fairview dam. Lake Isabella has been stocked for decades with nonnative fish that move upstream to spawn and find cooler water so nonnative strains cannot be removed from this section of river. This will also help mitigate the financial losses of local merchants who depend on fishermen showing up to fish.

Alternatives Considered and Eliminated from Detailed Discussion in the EIR
Eliminate Trout Stocking in Flowing Waters Chp 7 (page 5-6)
This alternative was suggested as patterned after a similar practice followed by the State of Montana regarding its stocking guidelines. Demand for recreational fishing in flowing waters is far greater in California than in Montana. Eliminating stocking altogether in flowing waters would place considerable pressure on native and wild stocks that already exist in flowing waters and would eliminate a large proportion of the recreational fishing opportunities for anglers that wish to camp and fish along flowing waters in California.
Although this alternative was eliminated, the current stocking ban has led to a direct effect of increasing pressure on the native Kern River Rainbow trout on the North Fork Kern River, just as the CDFG feared. The number of anglers in the Wild & Scenic sections 6-7above Fairview Dam has exploded since the ban due to the depletion of stocked fish in the lower sections and has resulted in an increased harvest of native fish. The CDFG does not have the budget to patrol the backcountry and the current regulations are confusing to anglers. We’d like to see these problems mitigated through resumed stocking below Fairview dam, an artificial barrier with no fish ladder, until the Kern River Rainbow Trout program can provide the entire river’s stocked fish.

EIR Chapter 4 (page 69)
Impact BIO43: Predation and Competition Effects from Stocked Trout on Kern River Rainbow Trout (Less than Significant)
CDFG believes that wild Kern River rainbow trout in stocked reaches of the Kern River (waters downstream of Johnsondale Bridge) represent hybrid fish due to the legacy of past interbreeding between stocked and wild fish. The remaining range of non hybridized Kern River rainbow trout lies above impassable falls in the upper Kern River drainage, 30 to 60 miles upstream of the stocked reaches. Studies, in progress, of the genetic status of Kern River rainbow trout indicate that the trout least affected by genetic mixing with non native rainbow trout, and therefore of greatest conservation value, are those located in the Kern River and portions of select tributaries located in the Golden Trout Wilderness and Sequoia National Park more than 30 miles upstream of the stocking locations on the Kern River. These upper basin Kern River rainbow trout are no longer affected by stocking hatchery rainbow trout. As a result, the current trout stocking program does not have the potential to result in predation and competition impacts on Kern River rainbow trout, and such impacts are less than significant.
We agree with this point that the Kern River Rainbow have been hybridized between Fairview diversion dam and Kern Falls but even though these fish may be hybrids, they are naturally reproducing and a fish has to reproduce to become a hybrid! We would like to see this hybridization mitigated through completion of the Kern River Rainbow Project. Furthermore the EIR states section 6 and 7 of the Kern River are only rated a 2 in hatchery dependence. So if the ban is lifted why continue to stock with nonnative strains that can further deplete the native Kern River Rainbow gene pool in their natural range?
Impact BIO29: Predation and Competition Effects from Stocked Trout on Hardhead (Less than Significant)
GIS analysis indicates that there are 67 trout stocking locations within the range of hardhead (Figure 4‐45). Reeves (1964, in Alley and Li 1977:27) speculated that rainbow trout and hardhead compete for food. However, a subsequent field study (Alley and Li 1977) showed differences in microhabitat use and found no behavioral interactions between the two species. Additionally, competition for spawning space with stocked hatchery species is unlikely, due to non‐overlapping spawning periods and differing temperature requirements for trout and hardhead. There is no evidence of hatchery trout predation on hardhead. Hardhead have been observed to co‐occur in the Kern River where nonnative rainbow trout have been stocked in waters occupied by hardhead for 70 years with no perceived impacts upon hardhead (Cassity 2008). Because the hardhead and stocked trout use different microhabitats, and there is no evident prey on hardhead, effects of predation and competition from stocked trout are less than significant.

We agree that the impact is less than significant. Furthermore, the Southern Sierra Fly Fishers would like the final EIR to recognize the 2009 study entitled Hardhead and Trout in the Kern River, February 27, 2009, by Christine L. McGuire. This is a biological study of the interaction between the hardhead minnow and Kern River rainbow trout. The hardhead minnow is the native species of concern in the Kern River listed in the November 24, 2008 lawsuit brought against CDFG by the Center for Biological Diversity and the Pacific Rivers Council. Ms McGuire is the CDFG Associate Biologist located at the Kernville Hatchery and is one of a number of CDFG officials who are responsible for providing scientific and regulatory oversight over the populations of fish in the Kern River. This study employs 4 decades of fish studies in the Kern River conducted by the California Department of Fish and Game, California Regional Water Quality Control Board, University of California Davis, and Southern California Edison.
McGuire states that “There were no studies identified which indicated predation of hardhead minnow by rainbow trout. Optimal temperatures for rainbow trout are 12-18 degrees Celsius while hardhead prefer water in excess of 20 degrees Celsius. In riverine situations the hardhead tend to feed from the bottom third of the water column and prefer calmer waters, whereas rainbow trout tend to feed from riffles and the surface, in swifter waters.”
In significant conclusion the McGuire study found that: “since stocking has remained a constant since the early 1930's, and prior to that native trout evolved concurrently with hardhead, there is no indication that stocking hatchery trout is associated with fluctuation in the population of hardhead. The years when the hardhead population was robust and extended well into the normally colder reaches of the upper Kern would seem to indicate that stocking hatchery trout is not associated with detrimental effects on hardhead.” In short, the minnow and trout occupy completely different parts of the river. The hardhead minnow lives in slow, warm waters and the trout live in fast, cold waters. We find it highly doubtful that either species will ever be a significant predator on the other. We encourage CDFG and the court to use the good science available in the McGuire study to put to rest any concerns that the hardhead minnow is in any way impacted by stocking trout in the Kern River.
Chp 7 (pages 3-5) Alternatives
Input from the Public Scoping Process: Chp 7 (page 3)
Suggestions for changes in the Program made during the public scoping process also played a role in developing alternative hatchery and stocking management strategies. These suggestions are listed below.
-Consider the possibility for smaller, watershed‐based hatcheries that would repopulate local stocks of rainbow trout, steelhead, and salmon.

The Kern River Planting Base/hatchery with upgrades can be used for these purposes by raising native strain Kern River Rainbow Trout, Little Kern Golden Trout, and California Golden Trout.

Stocking practices: Chp 7 (page 3)
-Emphasize fish planting in water bodies where fisheries would be self‐sustaining but where fishing pressure exceeds natural productivity.
-Plant native fish species rather than introduced species where streams allow for reproduction and self‐sufficient trout fisheries.
-Prohibit stocking of hatchery‐reared fish where fish do not naturally occur.

The Kern River Rainbow Project will both supplement and protect a native fish strain that the EIR says has no conservation value due to hybridization with stocked fish above Fairview Dam up to the impassable Kern Falls 30 miles upriver.

Trout Stocking Chp 7 (page 4)
To address alterations in the genetic make‐up of native trout species due to interbreeding with stocked strains of rainbow trout, eliminate trout planting in waters occupied by native trout populations, or plant triploid trout where necessary to maintain a recreational put and take fishery.
Consider the development of specialty native trout hatcheries to augment existing native trout populations.
-To address declines in native trout populations, in part due to competition for spawning grounds, food and space from hatchery‐reared fish, eliminate trout planting in waters occupied by native trout populations. Consider the eradication of non‐native fish populations in waters within the range of native trout populations.
-To address the impacts of non‐target harvest on native fish species from planting trout, clarify the role of recreational fishing in species management plans and recommend special fishing regulations that minimize risk of non‐target harvest of native species.
We agree and believe that the Kern River Rainbow Project should be a major part of this strategy for the North Fork of the Kern. Fish from this program should be used exclusively above Fairview Dam to help restore the native Kern River Rainbow’s range and to mitigate the hybridization that has already occurred above the dam in sections 6-7.

California Fish and Game Commission Policies
Appendix (page 1) III.
Artificial propagation and rearing of trout is a major Department program, but will be utilized only when necessary to augment natural production. Stocking fingerling and sub catchable sized trout shall take priority over planting catchable sized trout in the hatchery stocking program when the smaller fish will maintain satisfactory fishing. Hatchery trout shall not be stocked in waters where they may compete or hybridize with trout which are threatened, endangered or species of special concern. Exceptions may be made for stocking waters which are not part of a species recovery program.

We support and encourage California Department of Fish and Game to now actively pursue full implementation of the Kern River Rainbow Project which is designed to identify a genetic native rainbow broodstock for propagation to replace the existing nonnative rainbow broodstock for the Kernville hatchery.
Appendix E Biology of Decision Species, Draft CDFG Hatchery EIR/EIS, page E-19
Efforts are being made to identify streams still retaining Kern River rainbow trout and extensive collections of fish for genetic analysis were made 1991–1993. A management plan for the upper Kern River basin (above Isabella Reservoir) was completed in 1995 (Moyle et al. 1995). Problems addressed in the plan include grazing in riparian areas and heavy recreational use of the basin. Population surveys to monitor trout populations and identify habitats in need of protection are scheduled on a five year interval. To reestablish populations of Kern River rainbow trout, anglers are now allowed to keep only two fish with a maximum length of 10 inches in most of the upper basin. The CDFG ultimately plans to replace nonnative rainbow trout stocked in tributary streams with catchable size Kern River rainbow trout if hatchery production of the native trout is successful According to the management plan, if native hatchery production is unsuccessful, stocking of nonnative rainbow trout will stop (Moyle et al. 1995)

The Southern Sierra Fly Fishers support and encourage the California Department of Fish and Game to now actively pursue full implementation of the Kern River Rainbow Project.

Final Comment
The Southern Sierra Fly Fishers Club believe it makes sense to prevent the Kern River Rainbow Trout from becoming a species of concern, threatened, or endangered through more hybridization with domestic hatchery fish and the Kern River Rainbow Project being part of Alternative Plan 2 will help accomplish this, and avoid future lawsuits.
Sincerely,

Shane R. Goslin
Southern Sierra Fly Fishers Club
Conservation Chair
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby Papasequoia » February 12th, 2010, 3:53 pm

castaway wrote:the Kern river business owners were the loudest and most organized group that made themselves heard... and they won! surprised?

castaway wrote:Did you go to any of the meetings? I went to one.. and it was obvious who was the loudest…. I cant even guess on the intentions of the DFG... but I do know that the people of kernville got what then wanted...I believe that its obvious what happened.... the people of kernville screamed bloody murder for fish! and they got em. …Not bad for a bunch of "dumb hillbillies", I guess they are a little smarter than some... they got the job done!

I believe the term that “someone” used was “short-sighted hicks,” not ‘dumb hillbillies.’ I will retract the term ‘hicks’ but I will not retract the part about being short-sighted. They have won a battle and lost the war. Along with stocking they will continue to pander to the lowest common denominator not realizing the potential for the future. But that is just an aside, these next few comments you made Bill are what prompted me to write again.
castaway wrote:Im making a point.... people who do not support stocking and write long winded responses on internet forms might be better served using that SAME amount of energy and write it down on a piece of paper and mail it away... instead of coming on forums - complaining, and doing nothing.
And claiming ignorance "I didnt know what I could do" is a flat out lie...
I choose not to write a letter - well.... because I think the situation is being handled as good as possible. (as good as possible being the key phrase)

I laughed so hard when I read that that Macaroni and Cheese almost came out of my nose. Classic, Bill, just classic. I know you didn’t mean it to be humorous, but when you are the one who has written more in this thread than anyone else, and then you rant about people who write long-winded posts on internet forums when they should be spending that energy writing a letter, and then you finish up by saying that you didn’t write a letter because you thought that the situation was being handled as well as possible, well heck, that is just frickin’ hilarious! A classic along the lines of homework eating dogs. C’mon dude, you should have followed this advice to yourself:
castaway wrote:oh lord this is getting out of control... Please ban me from any further posts on this thread

It’s hard to communicate ‘tone’ when writing, especially informally on an internet forum, so I just want to make it clear that I didn’t write that to attack you Bill. I just found the contradictions in your posts so funny that I couldn’t resist commenting on them. Now, I am going to go tie some flies because Mike and I are going fishing on Sunday, and it will be the first time for me in almost two months (which may account for my testy comments of late). And no, we’re not going to the Kern, sorry.
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby FlyinFish » February 12th, 2010, 4:23 pm

Has everyone on this board who fishes the surf been fully up to date on the MLPAs? It's kind of hard to do a Google search on "California MLPAs" when you've never even heard of the MLPAs before. Craig's point is to let people outside of the tight nit group know about what's going on. There may be a few guys on here who fish the surf a few times a year and have no idea what's going on with the MLPA. You can't blame them, but they are an effected party and can make significant contributions if informed.

Plus, I thought this thread was more about sharing some thoughts and ideas. I went to MLPA meetings because that is very very close to home for me. The Kern is not... right now... but if things changed, I'd fish it again. And if an opportunity arises where I can help to make a change, this board is a resource for those directly involved to pull me in to do my part. I would have pulled in more support for the MLPAs from this board if I knew so many people fished the surf. But I met those guys after it was all pretty much too late...
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby castaway » February 12th, 2010, 4:57 pm

Jon...

Tu quoque....

or maybe

Ad hominem

hmmm

either way Jon... you didnt do anything... period. you packed your bag and went home - than came on here and ranted and raved about how bad stocking is... and gave lame excuses.

Shoudl I write a letter to say thanks? I think the entire process was dead on perfect (all things considered)

When it was found the DFG was non-compliant with the law... the DFG became compliant with the law and stocking resumed like it has for the past 30+ years... Im fine with that.

Many people flat out abandon the Kern when times got hard... they had a little "feud" with some people.. packed their bags and went home... and when the stocking issue of the Kern arose... they snubbed their nose at it.. did nothing and then complained when it didnt go the way they thought it should.

That is perfect example of why some flyfisherman are percieved as "elitist" Go ahead thumb your nose at the kern.. tell us it sucks.. tell us your too good for it... because your only hurting the sport we all love.

Trust me... I hate trash as much as the next guy.... I dont think we need to argu about who hates trash more.

In time, us flyfisherman and the bait and spin gear guys are going to have to be on the same team... there are groups out there that want to stop ALL fishing.... so if you stay up on your high horse... your doing more harm than good.

You can add another letter to your team name "E - elite" BJEAC's :rockon: :lol:

So when it comes to issues of the kern, your opinion and your thoughts have little weight in my book.

I do respect you on a number of issues... but this is not one of them.


And Craig.... I saw exactly what you wrote when you wrote it... basicly claiming you were not sure what to do... lame... but its all good... I can tell you learned from your mistake.

Craig I dont think anyone said you cant have a meeting... they just said they cant make it... big difference.

You say you want to help people integrate into the organizations???

Easy... IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN HELPING OUT THE KERN
Contact the Southern Sierra Fly Fishing club... or the Kern River Fly fishing Club... or Trout unlimited.... or KRRV heck... Ok thats done...

I know this entire thread has helped me realize that one individual is doing ALOT of work and asking for NOTHING

I guess I should go get my garabage bags and go pick up trash when I hit the river next week.


One more thing.. to say the people of kernville are only worried about their wallets is VERY short sighted.
I cant even go into all teh reasons why that is just flat out wrong..
umm river clean-up, organizations, they too want increased awareness around picking up after yourself, geeeeeze... How many people of kernville have you talked to or met? 1 maybe 2 hahahaha Nice work!
2010: Fishing days 19

The things you own end up owning you. It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything. ~Fight Club
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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby RiverRat » February 12th, 2010, 5:32 pm

Faction was a bad choice of words. I'm burnt on this subject. It been a long 15 month agrument that I'm not backing away from because the Kern is my home river There are a bunch of people working on these issues. It just happens that I'm the most vocal on the forums. Some don't even post, some never will, and egads..some don't even fly fish. I look forward to future help and will keep everyone posted.

It sucks that they stocked the lower..there going to mess up the sucker fish bite :D Darn stockers getting in the way of the natives :doh:

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Re: Stocking the Kern

Postby Sasha » February 12th, 2010, 5:33 pm

So help this non-resident out a bit. Is the consensus that stocking is bad or good on the Kern? I am a bit confused after reading this thread…..

Personally I would think that stocking would not be a good thing. I say this because I personally know a few devout gear guys back home that told me that they would not go there because they were no longer stocking. Now I have been friends with one of them for over 27 years and yes I attempted to try to get him into fly fishing but that is a subject for another thread. So when I think about it seems that not stocking would be a good thing. If there are less gear guys then the place will get trashed less right?

I remember reading a post where someone suggested managing it like a “blue ribbon” fly fishing river. Would this not be the ideal solution? There are plenty of those types of places up here and they seem to attract people from all over the world. I would also assume that the amount of people that hit the places up here also spend money at local businesses.
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