Barbless flies

[Baughb]

With the amount of Catch and Release going on (seemingly), and the proliferation of conserving our resources (speaking of fish), I am constantly surprised that fly tying companies and boutique tiers still sell flies with barbs on them. I just saw a famous fly fisher's (and conservationist) signature pattern, sold by a shop that holds to the C&R ethic, with the barb intact. Why not use barbless hooks? It's like selling smokes in a pharmacy (Yes, I still smoke).

Not a questioning of their "morals" but, it seems to be a contradiction in their messages. I tie my own flies, about 90% of them, and I buy barbless hooks and pinch down all of the barbs of the hooks in sizes that I don't have or can't get in barbless (Ok, hooks on sale). It's not that hard and barbless hooks cost the same. It's safer for my fingers, ears, eyes, car upholstery and clothes. Now I know we C&R fly fishers are a minority in the fishing world but, I just don't see why shops and commercial tiers don't sell what they preach. And can you really say that a fish was ever lost because of a tiny barb? Really? How in the world could you ever know?

Ok, Thanks for letting my steam a bit. Back to crimping down the barbs on size 22 scud hooks...

Bob

[BrownBear]

Three more reasons to "enthuse" you for debarbing before fishing or starting barbless in the first place:

1. Too often hooks are weakened or even broken while pinching barbs. Didn't take me long to decide to pinch before tying, after ruining hooks after the fly was already tied.

2. We actually lose fewer fish with barbless hooks, especially compared to the big ole barbs like those on traditional Mustads. I'm convinced after long use, it's because the hook actually sinks deeper without the barb. Could tell a tarpon story about barbs versus debarbing those big hooks using a Dremel tool, but I'll save that for another day.

3. Leave your barbs at home when you come to Alaska unless you have REALLY good insurance. When my wife buried a #4 Clauser to the bone in her thumb (yeah, I forgot to debarb that one while tying), we had to resort to the ER to have it removed. The 20 minutes in the ER tipped the scale at $1240, but fortunately our insurance covered it all. Better to debarb than test your own insurance on a visit to AK.

[NorcalBob]

Simple reason, when bought in bulk quantities that the tying houses use, barbless hooks cost more than a standard hook. And the tying company pinching down the barbs results in more costs to them through additional labor and damage to the hook causing rejects.

[Wildman]

I have switched to barbless as I can never get the barb pinched down to where it's not a factor. Where are folks getting their barbless hooks from in bulk. I have used Allen and FlyShack. I like both flies but FlyShack offers them in 100's. Downside is they are often out of stock in sizes I use.

[briansII]

Simple reason, when bought in bulk quantities that the tying houses use, barbless hooks cost more than a standard hook. And the tying company pinching down the barbs results in more costs to them through additional labor and damage to the hook causing rejects.

Yup. If the cost goes up per fly, they will lose customers to the cheaper flies with barbs.

briansII

[8NoFish]

I'm sure there still are fishermen who will fish with barbed hooks wherever legal (and sometimes illegal) because they feel that they lose less fish with them. Tiers and flyshops don't want to lose that segment of market. And the last time I looked, it's much easier to de-barb a hook than it is to RE-barb a hook.

[fflutterffly]

If you write to Justin at Allen Fly Fishing Company, let him know you want a bulk purchase on a hook and he'll do his best to help you out.

[BrownBear]

... Allen Fly Fishing Company, let him know you want a bulk purchase on a hook....

Good suggestion. They're excellent hooks, and already reasonably priced, with a further break for buying at least 100 of a model and size (4 packets).

I just checked, and they have 11 barbless models covering most tying needs. Their barbless standard dry hook (D101BL) is only $13.56/100. Their J100BL jig hook is outstanding in the water, and at the same price is the cheapest by far that I've ever found.

Here is their hook page.

[clee]

I'm sure there still are fishermen who will fish with barbed hooks wherever legal (and sometimes illegal) because they feel that they lose less fish with them. Tiers and flyshops don't want to lose that segment of market. And the last time I looked, it's much easier to de-barb a hook than it is to RE-barb a hook.

I think this is the main reason why hooks and flies still come with barbs. Most fly buyers (not all) tend to be recent converts from gear, they are used to barbs and I think if you gave them a chose between a fly with a barb and one without they would chose a barbed version.

Additionally most commercial flies are tied overseas. Quite frankly they don't give a * whether a hook is barbed or debarbed, they only care about cranking out as many flies as possible and whatever raw materials are readily available.

Any one who uses Allen hooks, can you tell me where they are made?

[BrownBear]

Additionally most commercial flies are tied overseas. Quite frankly they don't give a * whether a hook is barbed or debarbed, they only care about cranking out as many flies as possible and whatever raw materials are readily available.

Any one who uses Allen hooks, can you tell me where they are made?

The overseas outfits tie to specification. If barbless flies are ordered, they'll happily turn them out. An interesting illustrations comes from a couple of friends who've spent the last 2 years setting up a tying operation overseas and getting their markets going. Since Day 1 they've offered barbless flies as an option at no extra cost. Last I heard, they're yet to receive their first order for barbless.

As for the source of Allen, not a clue. I never asked them, but there's no indication on the packets. The cheapest hooks I know of are some a friend picked up for me in Vietnam. The prices were on the order of what we pay for packs of 25, but that same money bought you packs of 1,000 over there. Might be interesting to go nosing around Alibaba and see what you could learn.

[teejay]

I wait until I’m ready to fish before pinching down the barb.
I’ve found that the barbed hooks stay attached better in the foam compartments of my fly boxes.
This also allows me determine which flies in my box have previously been used.

[midger]

I wait until I’m ready to fish before pinching down the barb.
I’ve found that the barbed hooks stay attached better in the foam compartments of my fly boxes.
This also allows me determine which flies in my box have previously been used.

Like teejay, I also pinch the barbs down on the river and have had very minimal breakage of hooks when doing it this way--actually none if I'm careful to only smash flat with no twisting or turning of the hemostats during the smashing. I smash barbs on all flies when fishing a "barbless regs" water--naturally as that's the law. I also smash the hooks sized 16 and larger almost all the time on all waters regardless of the regulations, but seldom smash on 18 and smaller if barbless isn't required. I feel it does make a difference in fish landed (and I think the fact that fish often come off in the net when fishing barbless is "proof" that barbed holds better).

As for why more flies aren't sold barbless, cost is the first factor as it's only recently that barbless hooks at a more reasonable price became available, and second, I still don't think a lot of flyfishers want exclusively barbless flies. I feel many, like myself, prefer to make up their own mind how they want to fish their flies. If it's barbless, you can make it barbless, but if it's not barbless and you want the barb, you can't "rebarb" a barbless hook.

That being said, even the small barbed hooks are tough to pull out of a finger. I had a size 20 midge embedded this week and it was a tough squeeze and * to get it out. Obviously a barbless hook would've been far easier to remove.

If you always keep a tight line to your quarry, a barbless hook works just fine, but when fish jump or run at you, keeping said tight line is problematic. On those tiny midge patterns I want the extra holding power, and removal isn't difficult, but still more difficult to remove than an unbarbed hook would be to remove.

[Bernard]

My most recent self-hooking event has me sold on leaning even more towards 100% barbless. I don't need any hero shots nor piercings!

[BrownBear]

I had a size 20 midge embedded this week and it was a tough squeeze and * to get it out. Obviously a barbless hook would've been far easier to remove.

To help make your point, last week I had a barbless #20 Baetis nymph on a dropper. When getting ready to change locations I hooked the point fly in the hook keeper on the rod, reeled up the slack, and grabbed the rod above the grip to change hands for the walk. Slid the second hand down the rod toward the grip as a matter of course. Didn't make it that far, because that little !#$% Baetis came up solid in the side of my hand.

Oops.

No big deal. Backed it out without a thought, grabbed the rod by the grip while avoiding the dropper, and went about my business.

That particular "evolution" with droppers accounts for about 90% of my self-hooks. But do I learn?

[NorcalBob]

I've stuck myself plenty of times whilst fishing/casting. But I can say with out reservation, that all the times I've embedded the fly through my flesh up to the hook bend has always been on the dropper fly! Good thing I mostly fish barbless, because all those dropper hits came out without any difficulty!