Poor Guide Etiquette

[KRoberts1]

Wednesday afternoon, Uncle Ron & I were fishing the upper O near the Hot Creek Confluence. We were the only two on the river for a half mile or more in either direction. A guide which I am not familiar with, parked approx 500 yards below us, marches himself and 4 clients up river and plants one client immediately below Ron and three more in the run between Ron and myself. Never asks which way we are fishing or even acknowledges that we are there. Really * me off.

I had a rather stern conversation with him and his clients. The clients were apologetic (newbies) but the guide was a true A-hole. Sure would like to know who he was. The Guy drives an olive tundra with camper shell, a "Rick's Sporting Goods" sticker on the rear and had a dog with him. He was wearing a Buff but had a scraggly beard and mustache.

Any hints as to his name would be, would be appreciated. I would like to continue my talk with him. Considered letting the air out of his tires since he was so far away, but Uncle Ron was not too supportive of the idea. Cooler head prevailed.

keith

[briansII]

I don't know anything about the eastside, but I googled a "Rick's Sports Center" in Mammoth. You might give them a call and see if they do bookings for said A-hole guide.

And good job confronting the guide. It might have saved someone else from having the same experience.

briansII

[midger]

Sorry, I can't help with the guide identification, and I question how a single guide could simultaneously work with 4 sports and do justice to all of them--especially for what guides charge.

What you experienced isn't all that uncommon on that stretch of water though. A similar situation happened to us about a month ago when a guide and client hopped me and began fishing right in front of me as I worked upstream. They had been fishing down at the confluence and I went out of my way to avoid working down into their water. The plus side of this episode was that they obviously wanted to work a certain hole which was about 50 feet above me as that's the only place they fished before returning to their car, and I now know where said hole is at.

[fly addict]

If he is a member of the Eastern Sierra Fishing Guides Association he sure isn’t following there codes of etiquette. But it wouldn’t be the first time I have heard of a member being an A-hole.
Code of Etiquette:
Eastern Sierra Fishing Guides Association

1. The Golden Rule applies… We will be courteous and treat all anglers as you wish to be treated. Remember, we are setting
the example!

2. Communication is the key… when approaching anglers or fellow guides on the stream, we will ask (or hand gesture)
which way they are working – upstream or downstream? Avoid cutting them off by casting or wading directly where they
intend to fish.

3. Honor each other’s space… We will not fish the same water that other anglers or guides are fishing, unless invited
by them.

4. We will be courteous with our wake… Motoring fast or going through other angler’s water is not only dangerous and
inconsiderate, it demonstrates poor judgement and lack of etiquette.

5. We will not leave marker buoys on the lake, as it is unethical… One would not do this on a stream, so why on the lake?

6. We will never block access… to a drift boat put-in/take-out area with your truck or trailer.

7. While passing another drift boat or bank angler… we will ask them how we may pass in a manner that causes the least
disturbance to their water.

8. Know the rules & regulations… We will be the stream-keepers of our local waters. If you witness illegal fishing practices
or poaching, it is our duty to approach the individuals in a non-confrontational manner and offer clarification of the regulations.
If they’re non-compliant, call local authorities immediately.

9. We will be proponents of catch & release fishing… for wild trout. In many of our waters, stocking of hatchery trout may
be declining or non-existent. We need must conserve and preserve our resources.

10. We will take only pictures and leave only footprints... We are the stewards of the environment and the resources,
advocate leave-no-trace practices. It is our duty to pick up trash and other materials that don’t belong.

11. When appropriate, we will offer assistance to other anglers… such as techniques, etiquette, and respect for the outdoors.
Children, especially, are the future of our sport.

12. Continuous lack of etiquette is justification to be removed from the Eastern Sierra Fishing Guides Association.

I like how number 12 is written, “continuous lack of etiqutte” seems very broad.
Keith,
So other than the run-in with a * of a guide, how was the fishing?

[Devinpreston]

I think letting the air out of someones tires is pretty extreme! I fish for fun and try not to let other peoples stupid actions bother me. It is not cool that the guy did that there is plenty of water up there!

[fflutterffly]

I'm sure David might know of him.

[Papasequoia]

A similar situation happened to us about a month ago when a guide and client hopped me and began fishing right in front of me as I worked upstream. They had been fishing down at the confluence and I went out of my way to avoid working down into their water. The plus side of this episode was that they obviously wanted to work a certain hole which was about 50 feet above me as that's the only place they fished before returning to their car, and I now know where said hole is at.

What Mike didn't mention was that this was a well known guide, that he (Mike) was obviously fishing his way upstream and this person jumped in front of him by just one stinking hole, walking all the way up there with his sport to do it and that they were within spitting distance of each other. I was already sitting at the car having lunch and watched it all happen - pretty incredible. Mike just walked back and joined me for lunch - I would have said something. Nothing like teaching your clients that it's ok to low-hole someone on the UO.

[planettrout]

Hey Keith,

If ya' run into this DN again, take his picture and give him the publicity he deserves...


PT/TB

[lucfish]

[quote="midger"]Sorry, I can't help with the guide identification, and I question how a single guide could simultaneously work with 4 sports and do justice to all of them--especially for what guides charge.

What you experienced isn't all that uncommon on that stretch of water though.

You hit it on the head Mike. What's a guide doing trying to work 4 clients especially newbies. That's a greed thing, all too common in today's society. But I think the underlying problem is there are just too many guides in too little water. I was told there about 40 people who are licensed and maybe another 20 who aren't but get paid without DFG knowledge. (summertime ) With that many guides and so little water, there is bound to be conflict. Many people probably don't know but you have to be permitted to guide Hot Creek but not the Owens.

[fflutterffly]

Here is a common rule: If I can cast into your water I'm/you're too close.

My solution: After I had words calmly with the guide and he ignored me I would have cast over their lines until I had made it abundantly clear they were too close. Aggressive? Yes. Diplomacy didn't seem to work. I like the idea of taking a photo and posting it on all the websites and passing it on to the Guides Association.

[KRoberts1]

The culprit has been identified. He was spot hired by a Bishop guide service. The owner has assured me that the culprit will not be hired again. The owner had found out about the incident from the clients.

I feel somewhat vindicated.

Keith

[Baughb]

Last wednesday and thursday on the upper and the lower, there seemed to be a whole butt load of people on the water that were new to it. At the lower, as I rigged up at my car, the only car, on a turn off along chalk bluff, a "guide" in his truck drove up with 4 people and got out and handed each of them their rigs. I sped up my preparations and hoofed it to the water. Fortunately, he took his flock downstream as I went upstream, which was appreciated. I didn't have any crowding issues which again, was appreciated.
Thursday on the Upper, I parked downstream a ways as my little sedan is not a high clearance vehicle and fished upstream past the confluence of Hot creek. Having a good day fishing deep I started noticing groups (about 4) of fishers arriving with one of them being the rodless, guide. By 2pm I looked up and counted 27 people, besides myself recreating on the river. I have never seen so many before. BUT, I was respectful and respected by the others and a known guide to me, took his newbies downstream of me well away from the river and not before asking if I was working up or down stream. So while there are rude fishers about, I believe that they are vastly outnumbered by those who love these rivers and are courteous people of character. That's my story and I'll stick with it.
My only negative guide encounter happened last year on the lower by 5 bridges as a well stickered boat of a sierra guide service just blew through the sweeping run that I was fishing with no regard for me at all. The best part was as he was floating through the section, I caught a decent brown right off his bow on a dry while his client watched. Which was nice.

[Bernard]

The culprit has been identified. He was spot hired by a Bishop guide service. The owner has assured me that the culprit will not be hired again. The owner had found out about the incident from the clients.

I feel somewhat vindicated.

Keith

You should. Spending time and energy voicing a valid grievance, I feel, is important in any realm.
I am impressed that the clients spoke up. Good on them too.
High five!
B.

[fly addict]

Glad to hear the news about the guide in question. There are plenty of quality guides in the Eastern Sierras, people should do their homework and only use the ones with good reputations.

[flocktothewall]

Thats a tough one, I've been on HC, Upper and Lower and had people jump a pool ahead of me. I had a guide bring some clients right above me once on HC as well. I live in the Inland Empire, so for me its a 6 hour drive to the Upper/Mammoth, its hard to drive up that far and arrive at a stream where there is ALOT of fishing pressure and just decide to not fish it because there are other people there.

I know I have also unknowingly encroached on other fisherman, but mostly for the same reason, I drove a long way to fish, and there's only so much space on Hot Creek...

Try fishing the bowl at EW, you just gotta get shoulder to shoulder. I've caught fish at HC fishing a rifle that the guy ahead of me had just finished.

I jumped on the Fly bandwagon 5 or 6 years ago so I am one of the "new generation" of fly fishers, but this I think is going to only become more frequent as waters see more pressure and fly fishing sees more anglers getting into it.