Would you sell a second?

[Pete]

I have a couple of issues.

First a bit about my rod building philosophy: I consider myself an "old school" builder. I like my rods to flow together and have a clean look. I don't do a lot of fancy feather inlays, exotic handles or gaudy colors. I always said I wouldn't sell poor quality and rods that don't fit my style.

So on to the issues.
1) A past customer wants me to sell him a Bamboo rod I consider a second. It has a couple of glue lines that make it a second. Definately not up to what I would sell to a customer who ordered a rod. I only built it as loaner so people could try Bamboo without worrying about breaking it. My name is on it and eventually someone will see the flaws and think what a piece-o-crap. Not so hot for potential business.

2) Have a potential customer that wants me to build a Bamboo rod that is not in line with my beliefs. I consider myself an old school builder and have personal build guidelines that reflect the "old school" look. One of those guidelines is: No gaudy colors on Bamboo. Plastic (graphite) rods, I'll get "more creative" on but, I draw the line at Bamboo and fiberglass. He wants, in my opinion, a butt ugly rod and I don't think I can do it. Just refer him to another builder?

As a guy who is trying to get a foot in the door of custom building am I being too picky? Eventually I feel that getting a reputation as a "old school" builder will be better in the long run. A niche builder so to speak. So do I suck it up and compromise until I get well established? Or just refer customers to other builders that will "just build the darn rod"?

Sorry to rattle on, but I have hit the frustration wall head on.

Pete

[WanderingBlues]

It all depends on whether you are in it to support yourself and make money, or in it to preserve a philosophy and tradtion. Neither is any less valid, it's just where you personally fall in the range.

The customer is always right. He just may not be your customer......

[Benny]

Perhaps "custom bamboo" should read "traditional bamboo", and you should add the word custom to your fiberglass and graphite fly rods. Just a little food for thought

[rayfound]

I think you need to decide if you're a custom builder or not. Not a wrong answer either way, and you can certainly graciously turn down work if you want.

But if you fancy yourself a custom builder, its Your craftsmanship - your customers' design.

That being said, you could be "custom, traditional, Bamboo rods".

Though finally, if you're willing to do something on graphite, but not on Boo, well, I don't know that you should hold different standards... its just raw material.

[Pete]

All good comments and food for thought.

[quote="WanderingBlues"]It all depends on whether you are in it to support yourself and make money, or in it to preserve a philosophy and tradtion. Neither is any less valid, it's just where you personally fall in the range.

The customer is always right. He just may not be your customer......[/quote]

I love that statement. Think I'll do business by that motto.

rayfound,
I can't help hold them to different standards. Bamboo rods develop a soul as they are being built. I never feel the same connection to plastic. Whoa, I sound like a wacked out hippie.... dude. On most of my plastic builds I try to incorporate a bit of the old school look. Its just that trying to compare Bamboo to graphite in like comparing a BMW to a VW. Sure both are made from raw materials, but there is no comparision. Ahhhh, spoken like a true Bamboo snob. You are right though. I may change my standards on graphite builds to reflect more of the old school look.

[rayfound]

I think you should have no issue selling the second, provided your mark it as such, clearly, right next to your name. (or XXXXXX-out like golf balls) - Manufacturing defects happen, but you would hate for that rod to get re-sold in 3 years as a "True" Renaissance Rod. It has to get marked a second in some way.

[NorcalBob]

#1) I assume you are deeply discounting the "second". A customer may not be able to afford a "first" boo rod and they may really want a boo rod. A few errant glue smudges won't substantially affect the action/feel of the rod, and it's only a cosmetic flaw. If so I would sell it, but I also would remove my name/company from it as a condition of the sale.
#2) It's your business, make any rules you want!!!! Personally, in my book, the customer is always right, and I would build it the way they want it (but I wouldn't necessarily put my name/company on the rod!).

[RiverRat]

"Whoa, I sound like a wacked out hippie.... dude."

Or someone who's booed up in the head

Don't do it. Give it to a grandkid or nephew or ME


shane

[Pete]

#1) I assume you are deeply discounting the "second". A customer may not be able to afford a "first" boo rod and they may really want a boo rod. A few errant glue smudges won't substantially affect the action/feel of the rod, and it's only a cosmetic flaw. If so I would sell it, but I also would remove my name/company from it as a condition of the sale.
#2) It's your business, make any rules you want!!!! Personally, in my book, the customer is always right, and I would build it the way they want it (but I wouldn't necessarily put my name/company on the rod!).

I told the guy for $200 more I would make him his dream rod. Offered him the same discount I do forum members. Trust me, he can afford it. I know where he works. He'll come around. I waited him out on the first two customs I built him.

Shane,
The second is going to be a loaner for folks to use if they fish with me and want to try Bambo. Hint, hint.... want to fishing soon?

[Papasequoia]

Maybe you should have a second name/line for rods like this? "Avant Garde Bamboo; for those who want the fine craftsmanship of a custom-built bamboo rod, with some of the modern touches."
That way, you get the business, the customer gets the rod they want, everything is still high quality, and anyone who might see the rod who is part of those snobby, elitist bamboo builders boards knows that it is your modern line. (PS I'll sell you the copyright to the Avant Garde name and business idea cheap!)

[Raider]

Pete, as a proffesional wood worker, I can't count the times I've had to make a cabinet or other project that wasn't what I wanted it to be. Sometimes the project was just down right goofy, both in appearance and construction. That said, no matter how the client wants the final product to look, my heart and soul goes into everything I make, as do you. It may not look like something I would want in my home, but I know it will be of sound construction and as free of flaws as possible. Have we turned projects down? Of course, for a variety of reasons. Have we made cabinets we don't really like? Well, yes occasionally. I guess my point is that if you don't like it, it is not really a reflection of you as a craftsman. If you are in business to make Boo rods, the customer sometimes will want your craftsmanship and their look. The end product will be more a reflection of their taste, not your ability. As long as you know the workmanship is true to the craft, your conscience should be clear. No way would I sell less than highest possible quality. I don't think you would either. That said, fly rods are a different animal. They are sometimes drooled over more than fished with. I agree you must be very careful what leaves your shop, with your name on it. With that in mind, I agree, I would never allow any rod that is not absolutely top quality out. In your business, reputation is everything. My opinion would be to keep the loaner a loaner and offer to make him his own rod.

[FlyinFish]

Pete, this is a fork in the road any business will come to. At some point, McDonald's decided to microwave burgers instead of grill them. I would say maintain your principals, mission, and style. Classic and old school is always cool. But you can also do new and unique things with an old school style. That I think would be a great way to stay ahead of the game and be creative yet maintain your core style.

Another way to think about it is, is it really a matter of taste or just a matter of aesthetics. Point being, is it really lacking in taste and horrible, or is it just something you don't personally like, but could still be a piece of art in another tasteful persons eye?

I mean if he wants a decal of a trout put on there, geeez, I would not want my name on that as a rod builder. But if it's something like a color you don't think will look good, that doesn't make your build quality and taste seem bad, just that the color may not appeal to everyone's pallet.

But hey, I wrap or have my stuff wrapped in yellow, so what do I know. For me, it's something personal. I don't expect others to like it, but it sure does look unique, and people know it's mine.

Here's a story: I had a salt stick wrapped by the local shop once. I usually have him do a simple triple wrap in black, yellow, and white. It comes out to be almost the same price as a factory rod, so it's great. But, he had just hired a new builder and the guy wanted to show him what he could do. So, on the base by the cork tape, he did this fading spiral wrap with yellow and white, for no extra charge to me (I'm sure there's a name for this). When I first got the rod, I was livid. I didn't want this crap on my rod. I didn't want to seem all flashy and have all this extra crap! I just wanted a simple wrap with my colors and my name on it. But! I gave it some time, and it was done so nicely and so simple and with such class, that I've grown to love it and it really does not stand out that much at all. I guess what I'm saying is, if you keep your sense of class and taste and style, you can do certain different things and still maintain your awesomeness...

[midger]

Good advice from everybody.

Here's my take:
The only way I'd sell that loaner is if the name was removed from the rod. If you don't want to remove the name, it's best to keep it as a loaner so that folks can cast a bamboo rod to see if it is really what they want. I think lots of new bamboo owners are more enamoured with the fact that the rod is bamboo rather than if the rod truly fits their casting style and their fishing needs. A loaner might help them see what bamboo is about so keeping one around isn't a bad idea.

Remember the old saying ( I believe from the car industry) that "the quality goes in before the name goes on".

[fly addict]

Pete,

I was an award winning custom furniture builder for 25 years. I always felt if my name was on a piece it better be beyond reproach. If you take pride in your work you will not sell inferior work. Better off losing a sale then knowing you have a rod out there that you know is not right. It sounds to me that you are not only in to rod building for the money.

I turned down commissions because I knew the potential client wanted me to build a piece to fit their budget rather than my standards. In the end neither you nor your client will be happy with something that was not done right.

Mark

[stanbery]

1) A past customer wants me to sell him a Bamboo rod I consider a second. It has a couple of glue lines that make it a second. Definately not up to what I would sell to a customer who ordered a rod. I only built it as loaner so people could try Bamboo without worrying about breaking it. My name is on it and eventually someone will see the flaws and think what a piece-o-crap. Not so hot for potential business.

Keep it as a loaner Pete. If you do sell it take your name of of the rod first.

2) Have a potential customer that wants me to build a Bamboo rod that is not in line with my beliefs. I consider myself an old school builder and have personal build guidelines that reflect the "old school" look. One of those guidelines is: No gaudy colors on Bamboo. Plastic (graphite) rods, I'll get "more creative" on but, I draw the line at Bamboo and fiberglass. He wants, in my opinion, a butt ugly rod and I don't think I can do it. Just refer him to another builder?

On Boo I would just stick with the nice clean looks. Feathers on boo just do not look that great.
On Plastic you can do a lot more astuff with out it looking to bad.
If a customer wants something that you think is not "old School" on a boo send him to another builder.

As a guy who is trying to get a foot in the door of custom building am I being too picky?

NO

Eventually I feel that getting a reputation as a "old school" builder will be better in the long run. A niche builder so to speak. So do I suck it up and compromise until I get well established?

NO Build it how you have always done, if the customer does not like it he can be a customer of someone else

Or just refer customers to other builders that will "just build the darn rod"? Yes

Jon