Flourocarbon....?

[Danny McB]

So I bought a little bit of flourocarbon for some streamer leaders and nymphing to try out. My question is, I hear a lot about flouro knots failing and pulling/slipping out, is there certain knots I should be using to tie to the fly or different ways to tie the knot Ie: slower, wetter, etc...?

Or anything else I should know about this material? I dont plan oh going as far as tying it into a mono leader, I will mostly be using it as straight sections.


Thanks Guys,


Danny McB

[darrin terry]

I use all the same knots: triple surgeons, double surgeons and blood knots. Clinch and Imp. clinch for flies as well as non-slip mono loops. You should not have to change anything as far as I know. I asked the same question when I started using it.

[RiverRat]

When you slide and tighten your knots with flouro it HAS to be wet and tightened SLOWER than with mono or it will become brittle and break from the quick heat buildup.
Other than that it works great
shane

[Danny McB]

Thanks Darrin and Shane. I think the word I was looking for was "Slower".

Thanks again,

Danny

[briansII]

I have Bill Nash's, Fly Casting Systems book. In it, he goes into great detail about fishing knots. He's also done extensive testing of knot strengths. I have not read the whole book, but scanned over some flouro recommendations. He recommends, a Bimini, Kreh, Palomar, Davey, and King Sling knot, as 100% knots for flourocarbon. He also recommends not wetting the Davey knot. I believe this is because flouro tends to be slicker than mono/copolymers, and will slip. The davey knot is the simplest of the ones mentioned. I uses a Kreh Loop when fishing flouro and streamers.

Bill was known to be sort of a fly fishing knot guru. Unfortunately he passed on last year, but his books are still available.

briansII

[darrin terry]

I've used the Davey Knot for quick flie changes but it has shown a tendency to slip for me. I do still use it if I need to be quick on the change, but otherwise leave it be. YMMV of course.

[Sasha]

I have not had any issues with flouro with the above mentioned knots and wetting it.

[briansII]

I've used the Davey Knot for quick flie changes but it has shown a tendency to slip for me. I do still use it if I need to be quick on the change, but otherwise leave it be. YMMV of course.

I've never even heard of a Davey Knot till I looked up knot's in Bill's book today. Sure seems like a super easy knot to tie. Might give it a try tomorrow.

http://www.itinerantangler.com/podcasts ... the_d.html

http://www.redrockadventure.com/fishing ... y-knot.htm

briansII

[darrin terry]

Hah, never heard till today and he posts the link to the video where I learned it. The Itinerant Angler one that is.

[fflutterffly]

Sorry to jump this tread but I'm going to anyway: I've tried the Davy knot and have had it fail numerous times regardless of tippet material. I now just stick to the quick run of the mill Chinch or Improved Chinch with all materials.

[Flyjunkie]

Using Fluorocarbon to do the "dreaded" BIMINI TWIST certainly makes that Knot easier to get right... I use Fluoro 100% in the Ocean and For High stock or Czech/Euro Nymphing practices... Also Streamers... Heck I probably use Fluoro for 75% of all my Flyfishing applications... However, except for the Mentioned Saltwater Leaders & the Czech & High stick Nymphing practices.. I use Mono Tapered leaders and attach Fluoro to them for Tippets... as mentioned, if one [i]Slowly & Carefully Pulls the Knot tight, One gets No Slippage or Breakage... abit O' spit is very Helpful, but there's this product called "KNOT EASE" (??) that is Just Great when sparingly applied to a snugged up knot prior to pulling Tight.. also One can use Aquel and it works great as a Lubricant and disperses Heat build up just fine... Just a Dab will do ya...

If you folks want a Quick and effective Knot for Changing Flies.. give the PALOMAR KNOT a Go... It's Fast and Strong....

[RiverRat]

Palomar knots rock. Used them for years bass fishing with convential gear and 8lb flouro

shane

[Papasequoia]

Re: the palomar knot, I have a hard enough time threading a single strand of tippet through hooks bigger than about a #16, there's no way I'm going to try and thread a LOOP of tippet through a size #22 zebra midge standing in the wind on the Owens (for example). On the other hand, it looks like a good knot for bigger hook sizes.

I'm sorry to hear that the Davy knot is not very reliable. I came across that little video a year or so ago and it looked so simple that I kept meaning to give it a try (they claim it's a 100% knot), but I never got around to it.

In any case, I use almost exclusively flourocarbon for all of my tippets and have never had a clinch or improved clinch fail on me (knock wood) which is what I use for tying on flies, nor a double surgeons which is what I use to add tippet. Btw, I always get the knot very wet with saliva before tightening. Don't know if it's necessary or not, just what I was taught long ago. Jon

[darrin terry]

The Davy Knot is simple to the point of being elegant. Perhaps I do not tighten it properly or something. It is so easy to do that I won't give up on it entirely. Maybe I will try it more with fluoro now that I use it more often for the tippet section.

[midger]

I use fluro almost 100% of the time for everything from about 0X to 6X-- I don't even generally carry any standard tippet material and only use the 30, 24, 18# regular for making butt leaders to lead into the leaders I make.

As for the knots, I find that the finer tippets--ie 4X and smaller to 7 or 8X have a tendency to slip more on knots like the Davy Knot and even knots like the Duncan's Loop. I suspect it is because they are so thin in diameter so there isn't as much line against line to grip as tightly as when you are using larger diameter/bigger sized tippet. The Davy's Knot works great with streamers and large nymphs when you are using 0-3X tippet at the terminal point. If not cinched properly and tightened, it can slip with the 4-7X sizes--and more so with 6 and 7X. I've found the same thing with the clinch/improved clinch knots as well though, so take your time, moisten before tightening--especially on NONFLURO tippet. I often don't even moisten the fluro just pull it tight slowly and firmly. My knot failure rate is very low, but when I do see a pigtail, it's because I screwed up and tied a poor knot, not because the knot failed.

I've never used the Palomar, but it looks like an easy knot to tie and I thing I'll try it on some of the streamers I throw. The only problem I can potentially see when using it would be if you were using a conehead type fly and there wasn't much room ahead of the cone to seat the knot. Is that a problem Dean?