Snow a novelty?

[midger]

Isn't it funny how snow, which we Northerners used to take for granted, has now become a novelty?

Some things Sheriff Joe said about snow being a novelty got me to thinking. Yes it has become a novelty as we don't seem to get a lot of it anymore--at least not the quantities we used to get. This year is maybe an anomoly, as we have received more snow than in the past 5 years or so, and we need the stuff in multifeet lots. Fortunately it is snowing again today and hopefully we'll get so much that I can't go to work this week--mind you, not because I don't like work, but because we need the snowpack.

Three feet of new snow would be grand. I just wish that socalonians knew how to act in the snow. Wish they'd realize they can't drive 50 with chains on, that it takes more that 30 feet to stop a car on icy/snowy roads, and that yes, full time residents really do mind when you park your car in their driveway so you and your family can play in the snow, and , and, and........

I also cut my teeth like Jon and Joe in winters in Idaho, spinning brodies in the High school parking lots, learning to correct oversteers and fishtailing so that when I do experience those things on the highways, I can respond more properly. Unfortunately most don't get to experience those training situations, but they still could use common sense. Slow down, brake cautiously, accelerate slowly, use chains when it says chains are required, don't avoid chain control by driving through neighborhoods that haven't been plowed (you'll get stuck), and if you are a weekender, don't leave your car in the middle of the street because you are too lazy to dig out a parking spot. The snowplow can't get by, so they won't plow the street, duh!

This snow is good for the watersheds though. Spring should be great, with flows running higher. Spring rainbow spawning should also benefit from the greater water levels. The slow melt off will benefit deepwatering of the pines, which in turn gets the sap flowing which enables them to fight off the bark beetle infestations which have really damaged local forests the past 3-5 years.

Don't you love the "circle of life"? I can hear the African drums now.

[Papasequoia]

It's so nice to sleep late an extra day on this long weekend then wake up to a steady rainfall here in the desert. I feel like rubbing my hands together with glee.

As for '* behind the wheel' or 'people who don't know how to drive in bad weather' my favorite story took place over twenty years ago. I was living near Sacramento and had driven up to Tahoe for a day of skiing. I was coming back down that long, long grade into the central valley and it was snowing hard and had been all day. Almost everyone was driving slowly and correctly for the conditions in the slow lane. Then we all got passed by a '<oops!> behind the wheel' who was driving a huge, jacked-up, 4WD pickup truck with chains on all four tires. We were probably driving 30-40, he was driving 60-70 as if he were invincible. Of course, some miles down the road we passed him, rolled over in a ditch. I guess he learned the hard way that just because you have chains on a 4WD doesn't mean you are immune from the forces of nature. Fortunately (for them) it looked like no one got injured because they were all standing around in the snow looking at their upside-down truck. We've all passed people in the ditch, not all of whom were there through their own fault, sometimes it just happens. But in this case, it was certainly deserved justice meted out by Mother Nature.

[rayfound]

I have never been in a vehicle with chains, and while I can imagine some benefit, I can't see how they would change the world drastically if the road is well-covered with snow... though I would likely guess that the link-chains do a heck of a lot more than the cables.


Either way... snow and ice is inherently unstable, unless you accept that and anticipate the loss in traction... you're in for trouble.

That being said, I head to Red Deer Alberta on thursday, where all of the roads will have snow on them

[midger]

Rayfound,
Chains do make a difference! If nothing else, they tend to slow the drivers using them down, as most don't install them properly so the loose ends beat the crap out of their cars if they try to go to fast. They especially make a difference if there is any ice under the snow or the snow is very wet and subject to packing to an ice-like consistency.

I rarely chain any of our 4wd up, but have had to a couple of times to get out of our tract. Generally when conditions are that bad though, I stay home, have a Kahlua and coffee, and tie flies or watch a movie. IOW, I avoid conditions that can lead to crumpled vehicles and death. Like the conditions today.

This snow is very wet, packs into ice, and the body shops love it. Check out Rim of the world dot net and look at the alerts tab. It is crazy how many wrecks there will be up here on a day like this.

BTW, the 18 is closed from Snow Valley to Big Bear Dam due to another snow avalanche. Even chains won't help when one of those rolls across your truck.

[Chris Kuhn]

I have never been in a vehicle with chains, and while I can imagine some benefit, I can't see how they would change the world drastically if the road is well-covered with snow... though I would likely guess that the link-chains do a heck of a lot more than the cables.


Either way... snow and ice is inherently unstable, unless you accept that and anticipate the loss in traction... you're in for trouble.

That being said, I head to Red Deer Alberta on thursday, where all of the roads will have snow on them

Met a couple of pretty ladies from Red Deer while performing in Calgary a couple of years ago.

[sakana]

Rayfound,
Chains do make a difference! If nothing else, they tend to slow the drivers using them down, as most don't install them properly so the loose ends beat the crap out of their cars if they try to go to fast. They especially make a difference if there is any ice under the snow or the snow is very wet and subject to packing to an ice-like consistency.

I rarely chain any of our 4wd up, but have had to a couple of times to get out of our tract. Generally when conditions are that bad though, I stay home, have a Kahlua and coffee, and tie flies or watch a movie. IOW, I avoid conditions that can lead to crumpled vehicles and death. Like the conditions today.

This snow is very wet, packs into ice, and the body shops love it. Check out Rim of the world dot net and look at the alerts tab. It is crazy how many wrecks there will be up here on a day like this.

BTW, the 18 is closed from Snow Valley to Big Bear Dam due to another snow avalanche. Even chains won't help when one of those rolls across your truck.

I'm with Midge, real chains installed right using a ton of bungees to keep then tensioned makes a huge, huge difference. If the conditions are tough cables are almost like using a band aid when you need a suture.

I use to live in Mammoth and worked at Whiskey Creek.
When the roads had snow on them it was very typical to hear the sound of cars colliding during dinner at the intersection since it was on a slight down hill grade.

[rayfound]

Rayfound,
Chains do make a difference! If nothing else, they tend to slow the drivers using them down, as most don't install them properly so the loose ends beat the crap out of their cars if they try to go to fast. They especially make a difference if there is any ice under the snow or the snow is very wet and subject to packing to an ice-like consistency.

I rarely chain any of our 4wd up, but have had to a couple of times to get out of our tract. Generally when conditions are that bad though, I stay home, have a Kahlua and coffee, and tie flies or watch a movie. IOW, I avoid conditions that can lead to crumpled vehicles and death. Like the conditions today.

This snow is very wet, packs into ice, and the body shops love it. Check out Rim of the world dot net and look at the alerts tab. It is crazy how many wrecks there will be up here on a day like this.

BTW, the 18 is closed from Snow Valley to Big Bear Dam due to another snow avalanche. Even chains won't help when one of those rolls across your truck.

I'm with Midge, real chains installed right using a ton of bungees to keep then tensioned makes a huge, huge difference. If the conditions are tough cables are almost like using a band aid when you need a suture.

I use to live in Mammoth and worked at Whiskey Creek.
When the roads had snow on them it was very typical to hear the sound of cars colliding during dinner at the intersection since it was on a slight down hill grade.

Good! I guess I typically see the cable style, and even at that, I've never ridden in a vehicle using them. Where i grew up, i never heard of anyone using chains...mind you, it was not mountainous, but people are just used to driving in snow 4 months a year.

It was my feeling (confirmed by you and Midger), that the true link-style chains make a significant difference.

[midger]

Rayfound,
The cables are next to worthless as are the other wanabes like the spider attachments, etc. They don't give enough bite to be of much value, but they are easy to install and lightweight, and cheap (relatively speaking). They meet the requirement for chains and will get you through chain control, but that's about all.

Real chains are just that--chain. The best are the ones with gripper bars welded onto the chain links as these add even more bite, especially if the road is icy. All my vehicles are 4wd, so we rarely are required to chain up, but when you do need to chain up a 4wd, you need to ask yourself, "do I really need to be out on the road?" Unless the wife is delivering a baby, someone is dying, or you're out of beer, I think not.

I find chain control irritating as it really ties traffic up coming up the mountain. However, it does keep the ones off who don't have chains (and ergo probably no experience driving in snow) and slows the ones who do have chains down. Plus it makes for a thriving economic recovery plan for the installers who get $40-60 a pop for installing them on flatlander's cars who don't know how to install them. Correct installation is a must for them to be effective and to save your paint job.

[Papasequoia]

but when you do need to chain up a 4wd, you need to ask yourself, "do I really need to be out on the road?" Unless the wife is delivering a baby, someone is dying, or you're out of beer, I think not.

Hey, wait a minute, you forgot one, what about skiing? I mean, the wife can drive herself to the hospital to deliver the baby, but if you need to get up to the ski area, the chains need to go on! Jon

PS Please don't tell my wife I said that.