The best way to kill a fish

[URUNDR]

I think it unfair in that it was characterized all through the resulting thread that I condone laying fish on the ground, which I do not, anymore than holding them out of the water, squeezing them or putting your thumb up under the gill plate. When I got the first email and saw the pic, I thought I was simply pointing out that despite it looking bad, the upside of putting it on the grass was the time out of water was probably shorter than the conventional hold-the-fish-up for the camera shot and, in fact, may have been less harmful to the fish than the latter. Said another way, if I had to choose between the bank for 5 seconds versus holding the fish for 30 secs, I'd take the bank.

We are on the same team. No one in the know would opt for either as a proper way to best ensure the survival of the fish. I do apologize if my words and removing the pic from the fish report did not convey that position.

-Kent

[Flux]

I spoke poorly in another post and learned a big lesson about being judgemental or making gross generalizations, you just can't go there. But it works both ways. You simply stick to the positive and tuck away any argument or negativity. What needs to be is a conversation.

I spend quite a bit of coin myself at the * and don't intend to stop doing that. I am a Mammoth regular and have made a ton of friends there and a few guide through the *. I know everyone there by face at least. I pick up a ton of info about what's going on fish wise there too. So any sort of boycotting hurts all of them. Support your local fly shop or they won't be there next time you need an Olive Crystal Caddis Emerger Fluttering Pupa or a spool of tippet.

What I think went down here is a definite reminder of how we all have to be good stewards to the local waters and promote our best practices all along the way. From not wading hot creek, getting those hero shots quickly and with minimal impact, to reporting poachers and picking up all the f-ing trash that get's left behind.

So getting back to the good conversation instead of the * match. Some of the fish kill is gonna feed that beautiful juvenile osprey I saw down there this winter as well as the bald eagle and the coyotes. And quite truthfully, the alpers in the lakes basin are there for the taking. I always just secretly hope the bears get to the stringers first. But it's gonna be a long summer and the good folks in Mammoth need that dollar to keep on keeping on. Without it, there's no stocking, hot creek would be poached constantly, etc.

So let's just all agree to promote good C&R and all be good to each other, the fishes, and the waters we love.

Flux

[lucfish]

I spoke poorly in another post and learned a big lesson about being judgemental or making gross generalizations, you just can't go there. But it works both ways. You simply stick to the positive and tuck away any argument or negativity. What needs to be is a conversation.

I spend quite a bit of coin myself at the * and don't intend to stop doing that. I am a Mammoth regular and have made a ton of friends there and a few guide through the *. I know everyone there by face at least. I pick up a ton of info about what's going on fish wise there too. So any sort of boycotting hurts all of them. Support your local fly shop or they won't be there next time you need an Olive Crystal Caddis Emerger Fluttering Pupa or a spool of tippet.

What I think went down here is a definite reminder of how we all have to be good stewards to the local waters and promote our best practices all along the way. From not wading hot creek, getting those hero shots quickly and with minimal impact, to reporting poachers and picking up all the f-ing trash that get's left behind.

So getting back to the good conversation instead of the * match. Some of the fish kill is gonna feed that beautiful juvenile osprey I saw down there this winter as well as the bald eagle and the coyotes. And quite truthfully, the alpers in the lakes basin are there for the taking. I always just secretly hope the bears get to the stringers first. But it's gonna be a long summer and the good folks in Mammoth need that dollar to keep on keeping on. Without it, there's no stocking, hot creek would be poached constantly, etc.

So let's just all agree to promote good C&R and all be good to each other, the fishes, and the waters we love.

Amen

[DrCreek]

Kent,

Just know that all of us here have ALWAYS spoken very highly of you, your shop and your staff. That being said, most here are obviously very conservation-minded as we would hope ALL flyfishermen are. We appreciate you removing the photo and glad you took the time to reply to the masses. It is what it is. I know you'll be more careful in the future as to what's being posted when your good name is attached to it.
Mike

[Papasequoia]

I think it unfair in that it was characterized all through the resulting thread that I condone laying fish on the ground, which I do not, anymore than holding them out of the water, squeezing them or putting your thumb up under the gill plate. When I got the first email and saw the pic, I thought I was simply pointing out that despite it looking bad, the upside of putting it on the grass was the time out of water was probably shorter than the conventional hold-the-fish-up for the camera shot and, in fact, may have been less harmful to the fish than the latter. Said another way, if I had to choose between the bank for 5 seconds versus holding the fish for 30 secs, I'd take the bank.

We are on the same team. No one in the know would opt for either as a proper way to best ensure the survival of the fish. I do apologize if my words and removing the pic from the fish report did not convey that position.

-Kent

Well, it took three tries to finally come to agreement. The first email basically saying buzz off, there's nothing wrong with laying a fish on the ground. Then the first post saying 'hey, I'm the victim here' and still mainly trying to defend that position. Then this third response that still briefly attempts to defend the practice (5 seconds on the ground is still better than 30 in the air), but finally gets to an apology and an acknowledgement that there are many bad practices and we all need to work to 'ensure the survival of the fish.' Bravo and amen to that - it's too bad that it took so long to acknowledge it, but some people just don't like to admit that they can be mistaken. [Mea culpa as I can include myself in that category at times.]

Edit: Of course the picture of the little girl poacher is still unaddressed, but, moving on to something even more important - how about them Red Sox, eh?

[briansII]

I think it unfair in that it was characterized all through the resulting thread that I condone laying fish on the ground, which I do not, anymore than holding them out of the water, squeezing them or putting your thumb up under the gill plate. When I got the first email and saw the pic, I thought I was simply pointing out that despite it looking bad, the upside of putting it on the grass was the time out of water was probably shorter than the conventional hold-the-fish-up for the camera shot and, in fact, may have been less harmful to the fish than the latter. Said another way, if I had to choose between the bank for 5 seconds versus holding the fish for 30 secs, I'd take the bank.

We are on the same team. No one in the know would opt for either as a proper way to best ensure the survival of the fish. I do apologize if my words and removing the pic from the fish report did not convey that position.

-Kent

I appreciate you coming here, and explaining your position. Hopefully it clears the air a bit.

briansII

[Jimbo Roberts]

I still don't know what to think about this?

I say there's no good reason for the fish being out of the water for more than 10 seconds to take any picture. And your statement that you would take a 5 second picture laying in the grass over holding the fish out of the water for 30 seconds, I don't think I could agree with either. One I don't think that you can get any kind of picture by picking the fish out of the water, laying on the grass, standing back, taking the pic, then picking it back up and putting it in the water in 5 seconds or less? That would be hard to do, plus you have just removed most of the slime on one entire side of the fish. And like I said before, you get the camera turned on and ready first, before you even think about picking the fish out of the water. Doing this there is absolutely no reason the fish should be out of the water for more than 10 seconds, and easily done in 5 seconds, if you are going to hold it for the pic. If you don't get a good pic the first time, put it back in the water in the net for at least as much time as it was out of the water, and then try again.

I know that you may think that we are harping on this subject, but as on any forum, many newcomers come to learn, and we must teach those people the right way every time. Anything less and we are condoning exceptions, which just leads to their increased frequency, and developing life long bad habits. If it could be done once in awhile, well that's like you condoning it any given time. Nothing is perfect, we are all responsible for some delayed mortality whether we actually see the fish turn belly up or not. But we must put our best foot forward and promote the most ethical treatment of our gamefish. Many before me have said "It's a terrible thing for a sportfish to be caught only once!" And it's a loss everytime for everyone when someone who intends to release a fish alive can't accomplish that with good catch and release habits. Much less the fish dies because someone wanted a picture of it.

I have no picture of the two biggest Trout I have ever caught. One on the Big Horn I caught and the camera was left in the drift boat. The guide stayed where he was with the fish in the water in the net. I hurried back to the drift boat, grabbed the camera, hurried back to the guide, turned on the camera, and handed it to the guide. This took a couple of minutes and the fish was fully revived when I tried to pick her up. I grabbed it's tail, slipped my other hand under it's chin, lifted the fish, and the guide turned the camera off instead of taking the picture. He realized what he had done, told me, so I put the fish back in the net in the water while he turned the camera back on and prefocused the shot. I then tried to lift the fish again, but this time it struggled with all it might. I could have held it in a dead grip to get the shot, but decided instead drop it back into the water in the net again and let it calm down. But she was mad as h@!! now and had her full strenght again. She then jumped out of the net and back into her Big Horn home. That fish was close to 30" and 9-10lbs and I don't regret a thing. I don't need a picture when I have an experience like that.

Jimbo

[WanderingBlues]

Hey Jimbo, there will always be a spot at the campfire for you, and a pale ale in the cooler.

[Jimbo Roberts]

You never know when I might walk in out of the dark and take you up on that cold one.

Jimbo

[duckdog]

Kent, this may sound a little odd considering the tar and feather job you have just experienced but i'll say it anyway-- welcome to the site, I hope that you will feel free to post here often. The people that post here are truly a bunch of kind, giving people. And no , I am not just talking about giving each other a hard time about the small stuff, I am talking about the kind of giving that matters. Welcome.

[Wildman]

Kent,

I would echo that. If you only knew how caring and compassionate this group really is...... They are also very passionate about the resource.

I have issued invitations to all the Sierra Guides and Shops to establish a presence here by posting their monthly reports...specials...classes being offered. So far, very few have taken the opportunity. Offer still stands....would welcome your shop and fish report in the Shop Happenings section. I enjoy reading the various reports that are out there...it's interesting to see the different takes on things. I've subscribed to yours for several years.