WOW people just don't get it...

[Artin]

So I went up on a solo trip to the east side this past weekend.... What a zoo at most places in the hills. Just wanted to see if anyone has ever had this happen to them and what you guys have done about it.
So I got up early morning made my Vons run and headed to the Bishop creek drainage. I was up at noth lake and fished the out going stream with good success. Then I found out that I was out of 5x and 6x tippet so I drove down to STM and spoke with Trace a bit (awesome dude by the way). Got my stuff and headed back up. I stopped at the bridge and looked into the pool which was occupied before with no one in sight I said to my self what the heck. Road side or not let me try to catch some of these fish. I parkled and began to fish right next to the bridge. 2 guys and a kid about 10 or 12 stopped and watched me for a bit and saw the fish right there and I overheard them say "oh it'll be difficult to get this guy out of this hole" or something like that. I took it as a joke and acknowledged their pathetic existence and fished on.
Then it happened. I came to change my flies and lo and behold the guy rigs up his son with crickets and has him start casting right smack in front of me.....
I said to myself I will not make a scene. But then the thought of this guy teaching his son bad outdoor ethics I made a point to say something.
I turned and said " dude this is what you're teaching your son?"
He replies: "no harm you were changing your flies anyway" (Nervoisly)
I said: "Ever heard of outdoor ethics?"
He comes back with: "Well you were changing flies so it's not a big deal"
I said: "yea but changing flies or not you don't just walk up and fling your line right in the hole I'm fishing, I would never do something like that to anyone, besides it's a long stream isn't it, and this is not the only hole holding fish"
They walk off and he makes a smart comment "Well there is always one in every crowd" So quickly I reply "apparently there is 3" (Then I hated the fact that I said 3 because the kid doesn't know any better it's his dad and the other guy who are morons).
I was so * off. I was was more * at the guy oblivious to the fact that he's teaching his kid such bad stream side manners. I wish someone would slap some sense into people like that. Poor kid will grow up to be an ignuranus like his dad unfortunately.
I would never let my son to do something like that.
Any way, he saw me fly fishing so I gues I didn't help the sport. He probably will fall into the crowd of people who think fly fishermen are snobs etc. etc.... But I couldn't help it. I got *.

Now to the report.... Fished the lower O and did great, it's hot but fishing is good.
Trico's are up and about in the morning. So female trico's in 22's will do the trick. If you fish midday you will do fine with nymphs, the smaller sizes. In the afternoon there is SICK caddis hatch and the fish just go wild. Use any caddis imitation but in a size 18 or smaller. Once it starts to get dark you can up the size, I started using a stimmie in 16 so I could see it better in the lower light situation and still did great.
Like I said fishing was great with many fish to hand and some nice ones too.
Hot creek was also good. Trico's (Female) did the trick. Also caddis but in the 20's. Nymphing got some takes too.
Sorry no pictures but I was fishing and it was good!

Oh I forgot, I always hate to hear a pattern and no color. Kinda makes it a guess if you're not dialed in. I never got why reports only say caddis are doing great etc. with no color or size some times. So the caddis I was using was dark grey in color for the body and one I have with peacock hearl. The Trico has a black thorax and cream abdomen.... have fun if you go.... they're bitin'

Artin

[Flatsix]

Rude is rude and you called him out on it and he didn't like it. Don't worry about being the ambassador for the sport and having a fly rod in your hand, you did nothing wrong. Also, calling them out in front of the kid will teach the kid a lesson his old man didn't and hopefully will be committed to memory.

Now back to the important part...you make a good point about pattern and color. We all post the type of fly but only occasionally note the size and almost never note the color. I was at Hot Creek July 27/28th and the Caddis were going crazy an hour or so before dark. The size was approx a 20 and the color was a dusky gray. If all you knew was Caddis and threw a size 16 tan, you'd get nothing, if you knew to use a size 20 Gray, you'd get fish.

[DrCreek]

Okay. Here's how I see it. This kind of thing occasionally comes up here.

Problem number one... you took your chances at Bishop Creek and it went south. Okay, that's understandable because that area is the most touted, most publicized running water in the east side. It's popular because - like you said, it's roadside - AND because the stocking truck lives there. Humans are lazy by nature - the less they have to work for their return, the better they like it. And bait fishermen LOVE roadside waters - especially if there's room for their lawn chair, too. I'm sure you knew that prior to fishing the bridge pool (just below Sabrina) that the place is overrun by bait fishermen, right? After years of * about it, I've finally come to terms with the fact that as long as they're living by the rules and they have a license, bait fishermen and spin fishermen are generally good to go. That's what Bishop Creek is for - put and take. We could open up another can of worms and talk about all the trash they leave, but...

Some folks will never get it. Others DO get it, but they prefer following the rule of the current culture which is, "F everybody."

Best thing to do is, bail on the popular roadside waters. Or, if you choose to fish them, at least go in with the knowledge (and you probably did) that you most likely won't be alone, and someone will probably * you off so bad that you'll want to shoot him between the eyes. Nothing you can do about the occasional idiot. And please, for your safety and sanity, don't attempt "streamside education." 99.9% of yayhoo spin fishermen are pure, unlit sticks of dynamite waiting for anyone to light their fuse. If people wanted an education regarding the do's and don'ts of fishing, they'd ask for it. They just want their limit (or more likely, their cooler FULL of trout) because by God, they paid for them when they bought their state license (if they really did buy a license).

Best of luck in finding a new, secluded Sierra fishing spot. I'm sure you'll be looking for one. They're out there - hundreds of them.

[fshflys]

That was spin/bait fisherman, think that's bad, I had a guide with father son clients & the guide set the son a rods length away from me! I wanted to start berating the guide with laguage that would make a sailor blush but held my tongue, I wish I hadn't because maybe he would have lost his tip!

[gabe]

Problem number one... you took your chances at Bishop Creek and it went south.

beat me to it. but yea sux, but i'd always expect it from those kind of areas.
I have even had this happen to me on the East Walker by another fly fisherman. but he thought he had the right away on me and started yelling. I gave him a few words, then said ok here have the spot, and waded vigorously thorough the entire spot to cross the river.

[Gila Trout]

Artin,
Hello, it has been my experience that allot of people are cluess, lazy, don't care and some are just plain A holes. I was on the upper Owens years ago having a good time and catching a few fish. I then hear this loud plunk and see a large weight, big hook loaded with a large crawler land by my leg. I looked up and a fellow angler was a about 20 ft. from me working his bait. I asked him what he was doing and he said trying to catch a big brown. I then asked why he was trying to catch his big brown near my leg and he stated that he saw I was fly fihsing and I probably knew where the big ones hang out. I started laughing so hard tears came to my eyes. I reeled up and told the guy with that kind logic I wanted him to fish the spot I was in. I used to get mad when people would crowd me out of spot now I just smile reel up and move to another spot. That is one of the main reasons I mainly fish lakes from a tube now. There is more room and I do not get crowded out of a spot nearly as much as on a creek or river. I am glad you had a good time and the fishing was good. I kinda feel sorry for the cluess people you ran into on the creek. Because they have no idea what real fishing is and believe me it is more than just catching a fish.

Lanny

[fish-on-bro]

CALIFORNIA, LAND OF THE ME!

Chuck....

[fflutterffly]

Fish on I've had this happen to me in so many states and I'm sorry to say it is always a spin fisherman. It isn't a matter of rude to them. It seems to be a 'given' that they fish in packs, standing side by side, since they don't have to cast the way we do. They think it is completely natural. I think you did the right thing speaking up. Education is the key, not just buying a rod and reel and flinging worms.

[Artin]

I hear ya! My problem was my back, I cannot hike into anywhere without paying for it with lower back aches gradually increasing to the point of very uncomfortable. This was the main decision maker in choosing the Bishop creek drainage. Unfortunately it is not only bait and spin fishermen. I know plenty who would never do that. My very good friend went to mono on the west slope and was fishing with our other friend where a very well known guide came and stood behind him for a long period of time with his client. Seeing that fishing was good in that spot or that spot being a favorite of his, he tried to make my friend uncomfortable. Little did he know that my friends are not easily pushed away he stood there a while to the point that my friend also made a comment.
It's sad that this kind of thing happens so often even off the beaten path. It's become a culture of inconsideration I think.
I get it, the population in California has exploded, and personally I think that "A River Runs Through It" didn't do our sport any justice. It did the fly shops good but in the field it overcrowded the already crowded streams with some really annoying baboons. Also other fishermen who don't fly fish have begun to wonder off as well hearing about places with solitude. Only problem with that is when they all go in search of solitude then there is no solitude.
It's just a shame that people are this way. Like the family of 10 going and parking their butts in the same hole and expecting to catch spooked fish. I saw that as well. I wanted to mention something to up their chances of catching fish but decided against it. It was a funny sight actually. I was thinking to my self as I drove past slowly watching them "man, only of they knew trout survival instinct".
But in the end, I feel like it's an endless battle. New fishermen will replace the older ones with the same habits.

Maybe now is the time to move to New Zealand before that gets crowded too....

[midger]

Maybe now is the time to move to New Zealand before that gets crowded too....

You don't have to leave the States, just California. Granted the well known waters of Yellowstone, Idaho, Colorado can get hammered, but for every well known, heavily fished water in those states there are countless unknown, underfished areas that offer peace and tranquility. Just follow the blues on topos.

[DrCreek]

But in the end, I feel like it's an endless battle. New fishermen will replace the older ones with the same habits.

And that's very true - and rare to see someone readily admit that as you did. Not sure why that is; fear of retaliation, fear of what the future holds, fear of dealing with anything that interrupts their own little bubble world. Definitely a battle that can never be won.

Some have mentioned they feel that education is the key. "Streamside education" however - particularly in the heat of the moment - is NEVER a good thing to attempt - unless you're in the mood for a knuckle sandwich.

It's not that people "don't get it," it's that people choose NOT to get it. We're such a twisted society now - a society with a failed court system that ALLOWS ill behavior to flourish. Reality TV teaches our children that acting like an idiot is okay and fashionable. There is no responsibility anymore. And the behavior is an entitlement these folks feel they are deserving of.

Not sure where we as elders went wrong. Could it be we are so enthralled with the media-fueled lifestyles of Hollywood idiots that both our kids AND the Hollywood idiots themselves believe the behavior must be appropriate? If Lindsay Lohan and Kim Kardashian can do it repeatedly, avoid jail AND get paid big money for it, then why shouldn't our kids think they can do it, too? And they're right. Why CAN'T they? We're just afraid to hold people accountable anymore and I have no idea why that is.

I need to get on a national or local discussion panel somewhere and talk about this stuff as a community.

[fly addict]

Dr,
You always seem to be way ahead of the curve on these sort of issues!

[RichardCullip]

... Road side or not let me try to catch some of these fish. I parkled and began to fish right next to the bridge. 2 guys and a kid about 10 or 12 stopped and watched me for a bit and saw the fish right there and I overheard them say "oh it'll be difficult to get this guy out of this hole" or something like that. I took it as a joke and acknowledged their pathetic existence and fished on. Then it happened. I came to change my flies and lo and behold the guy rigs up his son with crickets and has him start casting right smack in front of me.....
I said to myself I will not make a scene. But then the thought of this guy teaching his son bad outdoor ethics I made a point to say something. I turned and said " dude this is what you're teaching your son?"
He replies: "no harm you were changing your flies anyway" (Nervoisly)
I said: "Ever heard of outdoor ethics?"
He comes back with: "Well you were changing flies so it's not a big deal"
I said: "yea but changing flies or not you don't just walk up and fling your line right in the hole I'm fishing, I would never do something like that to anyone, besides it's a long stream isn't it, and this is not the only hole holding fish"
They walk off and he makes a smart comment "Well there is always one in every crowd" So quickly I reply "apparently there is 3" ....

Artin

Glad you are still alive to tell your story

[NorcalBob]

I'm with the good DR here. "Streamside education" has a very high potential for violence these days, and I don't recommend it. I had a gun pulled on me a long time ago, that taught me a valuable lesson about "streamside educations", and it just ain't worth it.

[briansII]

Over the years, I've come up with different ways to deal with folks crowding me. I only verbally confront them if I feel 150% safe to do so. Most times I will just move, but there are times when I feel like messing with their heads. It can be something as simple as sparking up a conversation, or making them feel uncomfortable enough to leave. A couple times I had other fisherman racing me to a spot, or having them try and stay ahead of me along the stream while I'm moving at warp speed. BTW, at least 25-30% of the offenders are fly fishers.

So crowding can actually add enjoyment to your fishing day. Just need to get those creative juices flowing and workout a plan of attack.

briansII