Those evil rods that throw 3wt and lighter lines

[castaway]

Dr...

Please read --- Im not targeting you, persecuting you, taking aim at you, or anyone who uses ultralight rods.... I think we all do!!!

I completely agree with everything you just said!!!!

They are used for catching small trout on very light tipit!! thats exactly what I thought!!!


and Im not trying to start a war... please read what I have posted. I NEVER stated that anyone is stupid, or unskilled... Infact I said exactly the opposite..

I stated that using ultralights to target big fish is not recommended for the below avg. angler... and Sasha agreed with me!!!

And I went on to say, that if you are a skilled angler who can land 20' trout on the 0wts... just be careful promoting the idea... because everyone thinks they are better then avg.... and most are not---- including me!

So whats the problem?

I really thought we had come to an agreement... that ultralight flyfishng for big fish is not for most people??????????????????????????????????????????????

Years flyfishing is no replacement for time on the water... if someone fishes 4 times a year for 20 years.. and someone else fishes 80 times for 1 year.... who has more experience?

Just so there is no grey area: I think sasha is a great steward of the waters he fishes..... However, I think his ability is above most... therefor he is able to subdue 20" browns in no time at all with the 0wt... HOWEVER, I do not agree with the idea of promoting using 0wts for 20' fish...

Can we at least agree that

"using featherlight rods to target big fish is for highly skilled anglers only - and most people are not highly skilled"

[midger]

Dr...



Years flyfishing is no replacement for time on the water... if someone fishes 4 times a year for 20 years.. and someone else fishes 80 times for 1 year.... who has more experience?

That really depends on what type and variety of fishing they're doing. If you're fishing the same creek over the same fish using the same tactics, you're not going to improve that much, but you will get better at your game for that type fishing. OTOH, if you're fishing different rods, different styles (streamers, nymphs, emergers, dries), for different fish (salmon, steelhead, trout, bass,........), different waters (spring creeks, lakes, freestones, ponds,.......), different modes (wading, drifting, float tubing, flats fishing,............) THEN YOU MAY BE GETTING BETTER.

Flyfishing is a learning experience and if you're not still learning, it's easy to fall into a rut.

I don't find myself flinging fish into the trees with any rods I use, whether they be a 000 or an 8 weight. I generally know the size of quarry in the watershed I'm on and set accordingly. The only hard sets I use are on steelhead, salmon and larger fish. Trout usually get a strip set.

I don't fish the ultralights on any rivers where I suspect I might be landing 18"+ fish, not because I don't think I couldn't land them with one, but rather, because I want the ability to throw streamers, handle braces (2-3) weighted flies, pound out casts into the wind. That's why I usually go with a 4-6 weight rod in those cases. That doesn't make me right or somebody who fishes differently wrong. It's a choice.

Now a short story. I fished the SFB on a drift trip with a friend from SoCal in September 2008. I told Don that the wind often came up and that we'd be using heavily weighted flies and that I recommended he use his 5 weight Scott. He elected to use his 7'9" 3 weight TFO Finesse. It's a softer-actioned rod. Real sweet for throwing dry flies, but poor for laying out 40 foot casts with weighted flies. He had a frustrating day to say the least and ended up finishing the float using my backup Sage 5 weight RPL. For all but the smallest streams I use a minimum of a 3 weight. Idaho rivers get a larger rod unless I'm on the smaller streams like some of those in the Sawtooths.

I don't claim to be a good fisher, but feel I can hold my own.

[Sasha]

I fish them because I enjoy them; I am not really looking for approval or permission to fish a particular rod. Sometimes I enjoy the extra effort on my part it takes when fishing those rods. I write fishing reports for others to enjoy, not for me to enjoy (as I was the one that was there). To be honest most of the time when fishing larger rivers I take several different size rods along. This is unless I am actually trying to test something out such as using a new rod for example. The disclaimer was me f’n around. I guess I should have put a at the end of my post.

Typically I really don’t mention the rods I fish in my reports. Sometimes I do because it is relevant. Such as in my last report as I had just got the rod. The bottom line is that I don’t feel like I am special or a good stick because I choose to fish the way I do. Much like midger said I feel like I can hold my own nothing more.

Just as others have stated, I too am always learning. * to be quite frank about it I think I suck at streamer fishing (never mind the fact that it seems just like lure fishing with a spin rod to me ). As of last year I have been learning more about this and still water fishing. But to be totally honest given the choice I prefer the small waters in the mountains throwing nice dries to wild native species with a 0wt. * I would be doing it now if it wasn’t for those pesky regs

Most often yes my small stuff is used on small nameless streams up here. But like I have said before sometimes I like to go fish for bigger (a 20” brown on that river isn’t really all that ) fish. I do exercise care when fishing for larger fish on my light lined rods. Based on the results of my timed experiment (and the fact I have pics of the same fish over the course of a few years) I do feel confident that nothing bad is happening to the fish. Now if people would just quit bait fishing that river or taking pics of the fish on the dry rocks or shore.............







ETA: I wanted to add that I do not feel like anybody is bashing me. If I did I would just tell them to STFU and take this thread in a totally different direction

[Sasha]

At first I wasn’t sure if I wanted to resurrect this thread or not but I came across some interesting info on the subject. This information is from a fly fisher that is much more “seasoned” than I am. He brings up some interesting points that I thought I would share.

Hi Sasha,

You are correct that you can only apply as much pressure as the tippet will take before breaking. That is why the argument for or against ultralight tackle doesn't make sense.

Lets look at a situation where the tippet is not stronger than the rod but is very strong. A short rod will apply more pressure to the fish than a longer rod simply because it is shorter and stiffer. Lets go to the extreme where you are using a 9' rod and in the second case you are holding the line in your hand. With a direct pull you can apply more pressure than any rod because you have eliminated the flex of the rod. You might apply all the pressure you can and not break the leader or pull out the hook with the 9' rod. But, with the second case you will break the leader or pull the fly out of the fishes mouth with a direct pull. So just in general a short rod can apply more pressure than a long rod but it depends on a lot of variables and the design of the rods. In reality I don't think it makes much difference as long as you are not fishing a noodle rod of any length.

The advantage of light line rods is the smaller diameter line that may give you a lighter lay down on the water. That is the only real advantage I can see. If the light line is much smaller in diameter then its ability to float may be reduced. So fish what ever you like and forget about what applies more pressure or lands the fish faster.

I hope I made sense.

[RichardCullip]

Yep, I use my Sage 00wt to target little trout in small creeks. However, sometimes things don't go quite as planned and you catch something like this



p.s. the little rod was up to the task and I could have easily put enough pressure on this lovely "little" cutthroat to break the 5X tippet I was using. Luckily, I didn't

[Sasha]

That is one good looking fish!!!

[Sasha]

(Sasha, this is how you should be doing it...)

Nah I was going to start all of my reports with this line from now on: I am badass and all of you are not because I routinely land 20+ inch trout on my 0wt.


What is funny is that I never viewed any of my reports as "Chest Pounding"; just telling a story about how my day went. Oh well fug it I guess I could always stop writing them.

[beachbum]

Your reports are great Sasha! Please don't stop writing them. I enjoyed this thread, and see both sides of the picture. I still wouldn't use an 0 wt for 40 lb salmon, or my 8 wt for little creeks (although I did that once, with my 4 wt line on it, after a very long evening of tequilla drinking).

It's great we can discuss a subject that so many feel strongly about, without losing our cools.

[rayfound]

It may be little, but it's still mighty

That's what she said.

[Sasha]

Your reports are great Sasha! Please don't stop writing them.

Don't worry I was not serious about that at all. I was just messin around a bit.

[castaway]

Being an ultralight enthusiast.. I thought I would toss up more options.

This is going to break me.. and I think I have to have it. thats what she said

CTS technologies out of New Zealand makes highly regarded blanks (for those who know).

I just built a 10'6" 3wt fast action for highsticking... but...

They make a "vintage" action (medium slow) 0wt.

The nice thing about this blank is that you can order custom color, custom length, and custom pieces... all for less than a Sage 0wt blank!!

For example... I want a 7'6 - 8' 0wt with slow action... and I want it in a six piece... and I want it painted plum, or white, or yellow, or any color... Done!

you can go all the way down to 6'6" 0wt and six piece config. ... now we are talking... backpackers delight! Although, their website does not show these configurations, I got an email from them with all the products. If your interested I can forward it to you.

Just another option...thats what she said