Stocking the Kern

[RichardCullip]

This article in the Bakersfield Californian highlights the reaction in Kernville about the renewed planting in the Kern

http://www.bakersfield.com/news/business/economy/x1740999525/Trout-in-river-bring-cheers-from-nearby-businesses-lawsuit-from-environmental-group

here's a snippet taken from the article

...Legal wrangling, however, seemed to be far from the minds of Kernville residents on Wednesday as they celebrated that fish were once again flowing into the river. About 80 residents showed up to watch as trout were deposited into the river, Kern River Hatchery Manager Marvin Waters said.

Business dropped about 40 percent at the Sequoia Lodge during the months fish weren't being stocked, manager Rebecca Hunter said. She's hoping customers will return when they hear the trout are back.

"Everybody in this valley is so happy about it," Hunter said....

[castaway]

Comparing Kernville to Vegas is not going to work...

I think it is important to get economic data from kernville tracked as the planting continues, compared to economic data during the non-stocking period (using dummy variables like unemployment to control for variations in the macro-economy)... also would be nice to get data on number of poachers - This is not easy to track..more like impossible. Run a regression analysis and find out the true impact.

this would tell us the true economic impact of stocking vs. no stocking - to make assumptions (that stocking has little impact on the local economy) based on assumptions (its because home owners are refi'ing their homes to go to kernville) is not sound reasoning.

Also having a general profile of the typical kernville tourist would be helpful... 35 year old, 2 kids, married, drives a mini-van, votes republican, makes 40-60 a year, and uses bait

I knew my Political Science degree was good for something!

Maybe just a perception survey for local residents would be informative and useful in resolving this issue. And get a "profile" of the kernville residents.

Question 1
1) do you believe that non-stocking of trout in the Kern river will have a major economic impact on your life?

then later...ask if they have made any large purchases in the last year - new car, new furniture, new home, RV, etc... see if perception aligns with reality.

This I might be able to do....

[Papasequoia]

My tax dollars are being used to stock fish in CA and I don't agree with it. It's an illegal taking of my tax money. Where's Sarah Palin and the Teabaggers when you need them? The business owners in Kernville are a bunch of ignorant, short-sighted hicks who can't see that if the river were managed as a blue ribbon, C&R trout stream it would become a major tourist destination and their businesses would boom. The Sierra Lodge (already over-priced) could double its room charge. I don't care if they all go belly up and bankrupt; welcome to capitalism, my friends. I'm sick of people whining that they want government agencies to help bail them out. As for the catch and kill crowd, stock lakes only, don't stock rivers and streams.

Everyone knows that the Kern is a beautiful, gorgeous river with easy access. Managed correctly for whitewater rafting, kayaking and C&R fishing, (and camping in designated campgrounds), and the whole region could be a goldmine for local business owners. Keep pandering to the lowest common denominator (the Bud Light and diapers crowd) with free dispersed camping for every slob who wants to toss their bottles and spray paint their names and symbols on the rocks and you drive away the types of people who would spend some real money in that town. If the business owners in that area banded together and with the support of fly fishing clubs petitioned for a change in the regulations for the area: C&R fishing only on the river, no stocking, no dispersed camping, but regular regs around the lake plus stocking and dispersed camping, it would happen. If the business owners up there can't see that, they deserve to go under. I haven't spent a nickel in that area in the last year or two, and I refuse to do so while it's managed the way it is now. But let me tell you how I really feel.

[castaway]

You just said that stocked fish has nothing to do with people going or not going to kernville... I think that needs to be tested... thats all I am saying.

because it seems that the people who ACTUALLY live there... have a much different perception... THEY think fish stocking does heavily impact their economy...

so who is right???

we dont know unless we test it.

But I would tend to think that the people who live their are better informend about the economic impact then you.. or me.

[castaway]

Now Jon...

Its early in the day, so I dont think the wine is flowing yet... and you know I love you...but I have to question one thing you said...

You mentioned that if the Kern was managed differently you would visit it.

Im just curious if you fished the kern duing the non-stocked months?
now compare that to the times you fished it when it was stocked?

Does that align with what you said?

I think you fished it a lot more when it was stocked... Im not trying to get into a war of words with you... cuz my little pea-brain is no match for you... just a question...

I think having hard data measuring the economic impact of stocking/no sotcking is important information - and someone with time should gather that data and run the proper tests.... thats all I am saying.

It might be a little harsh to call all the kernville residents "dumb hillbillies" thast kinda elitist dont you think?

thats why its important to do a "profile" of the avg kernville resident... maybe we would be surprised?

I know a few locals... one has a law degree... of cource there is the local hillbillies... but heck...what the heck is Ridgecrest! do you want to be called a dumb hillbillie?

Again... we are making assumptions... we need hard economic data, and a community profile to make educated hypotheses about what is going on with the fish stocking.

but with lack of data... I only have the locals perception - and obviously, they feel that non-stocking severly impacts their lives... I think they know better than those of us viewing from afar!

Sounds simple.... if you want to know how non-stocking has impacted the locals... ASK THEM!

Anyways... I think I hurt my brain over this!

But..this would make a fine masters thesis for a poli-sci major.
community profile, economic data, perception vs. reality... etc...
Im sticking with my hypothesis - "stocking fish in the kern river has a major impact on the local economy" or the null nypothesis "stocking fish on the Kern has little to no impact on the local economy"

[FlyinFish]

How about we say that the local businesses could be a bit more aggressive and ambitious, and a well managed river would provide them the opportunities and clientele to support these ambitious and lucrative business goals.

The only problem with comparing to the state of the area while it wasn't stocked, is that the wild fish didn't have a chance to thrive and people haven't had a chance to take advantage of that.

I don't like fishing the Kern at all, and I hate it more when all I catch is stocked fish. I don't think I will ever fish the Kern under the JD bridge ever again, unless it's to meet another addict or for an event or something. Now, if they continued the non-stocking through this year... ya, I think I could muster up two or three guys and go up there to give it a whirl. If it continued, I would definitely go up there this summer for a day or two to check out the wild fish.

Would my bait dunker cousins come with me? No. But my fly fishing buddies would be more inclined.

It's like 3 hours from LA. A body of water that size with decent fish. *, I'd even be willing to fish nymphs!

The businesses may not survive enough for things to turn around, but, again, sorry. You have a business that can't adapt or survive down periods, then that's just a crappy business. We shouldn't be whoring out a water that has so much potential just to sustain a few mediocre small businesses. I think it can be managed and turned around and become an awesome area.

[castaway]

Yea.. I mean I hear what your saying...

but lets repace the word business with the word people.... does it still have the same appeal?

Do we want to see families go under?

I mean we could say that we send tons of tax money to inner city schools, etc... when we could just say sorry... you live in a poor area... deal with it.... if you fail... well its your fault.

What about the Obama/Bush stimulus package? wasnt that sending tax dollars to help create wealth amoung people who had little? (is that capitalism in its pure form?)

Its the same thing as the issue in kernville (from an economic/politcal perspective)

of cource in the middle of this is a potentially beautiful natural resource.. so it complicated the matter for sure.

But we are talking about families not businesses... its not wal-mart and Apple we are talking about.

I do agree that in a utopia your solution would be best.... but I am just not sure its attainable... and I am not sure the human cost out weighs the advantage... Im not sure.

I need a campfire and some wiskey for this!

[Papasequoia]

You've turned into such a socialist, Bill, that you might have to switch parties.

[castaway]

I just got my Zapata shirt, reading Howard Zinn, and plan on moving to france to lead the resistauunnnce

And you Papa.. did you switch parties as well?

down with government assistance!

oh lord this is getting out of control... Please ban me from any further posts on this thread

[RichardCullip]

Bill - Step away from the keyboard. Let go of that mouse and step away from the keyboard

[castaway]

nope... no economic study has been completed... thats what i am advicating for.


I will be going to the river the thursday or friday after wiskey flats...
Whos in for fishing the kern?

[Benny]

Is this really about "The Finless Trout that saved Kernville", who'd a thought the trout stocking program would have been the main reason anyone visits Kernville. Instead of Whiskey Flats Days it should of been called Trout Planting Days, that'll a sure get all the tourist up there, NOT!

[FlyinFish]

But I am talking about people. I don't want to start throwing out specifics and bashing people, but great businesses and people do well in these settings. A place with charm. I just got introduced to Shats's. I probably don't have to say much more than that, and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

The businesses in the Kern area aren't that great. I think some of them just get by on powerbait sales and selling munchies and ice. A legitimate tackle shop will make more money selling $2 flies to sucker fly fishermen. And a great restaurant with some good microbrews on tap, dang, I would stop for that on the way home!

Inner city kids don't have a choice. They got born there! The businesses in the Kern area chose to build their business there and they chose to be simple and not very unique.

Stimulus money is to help businesses that crashed because of a catastrophe. If these businesses solely rely on stocked trout to survive, then they aren't offering much and are not very good businesses. And yes, by business I mean the people. The people who own the business need to push harder and create some awesome unique things.

Like I said, I'm not interested in screwing a natural resource to give a few people mediocre jobs. This isn't stimulus money. This is creating a recreational activity to draw people and doing so in the easiest laziest way possible. It would be much better to manage a much more honorable and pristine recreational area and draw much more people, much more environmentally conscious people, and people more willing to spend more money.

Hey, I'm no expert on the area, and don't know it well. But I'm no expert on the four towns you pass through on the 395. But those towns have places I want to stop by at, eat in, or buy some flies. Kern... not so much...

Craig, good idea, but, the keys is, how do we transfer our yapping and circle * to reality? How does it influence action? Through a club? Through DFG? Etc? Again, not being a <oops!>, just asking the question and looking for thoughts.

[RiverRat]

nope... no economic study has been completed... thats what i am advicating for.


I will be going to the river the thursday or friday after wiskey flats...
Whos in for fishing the kern?

An economic study has been done and it was in the EIR draft. Trout Unlimited tore the study apart in thier EIR comment letter stating how UNDERSTATED it was since the Kern River is the most visited river in CA. Several local people tore it up too but TU is the most credible.

shane

[castaway]

FlyinFish...

have you been to kernville?

I mean the brewery is fantastic for both beer (brewed in house) and food (It at least rivals any stop along the 395)

And cheryls for breakfast? Awesome!

and the specialty sandwich shop next to the kayak shop! they make a killer pastami! oh and the little antique shop on the corner near the town square... its awesome! they have a huge variety of hard to find hot sauces and bbq sauce! The BBQ joint is also really good! these people proved a FINE product...

as far as the fly shop... I will let you form your own opinion on that because that might be bit of a sensitive topic here... some hate it, some love it...

I will put the quality of the products from the kern river business's against any stop on the 395... they are in the same ballpark (shat's is a specialty location... and for sure is its own seperate blessing for Bishop)

Of cource Bishop has the large chinese restaurant, and other large stores (so the options are greater)... heck do they have a wal-mart? If a town has a wal-mart, its not a quant little town in my book.

I guess I should re-read the economic study from the EIR... I think I jumped over that to find out what the results were for the bio-diversity.