Streamer Setups

[rkfiske]

Yes, I am considering delving into the mystery shrouded oft frowned upon world of streamer fishing. Unfortunately, I don't really know what I should be dealing with as far as line goes. I'm looking to set up on a 6wt. DC? Sink tips? Poly leaders and floating line? Intermediate? Rio's streamertip deal? What the heck do I do!? It all gets confusing when you get away from floating lines. I'd prefer throwing unweighted streamers but want to hear what you all have to say. I'm looking for a setups for rivers as well as lakes via shore. Heck even lakes via tube! I'm just so confused.

[Justin]

Hey Ryan,
Heres some dialog from Fliflicker from a while back. I asked for "sinking line help"



Justin,

The Airflo Depth Finder 200 grain works well on my 6 wt. in small surf and in the bay.

Dave


build your own shooting head with 30ft of Rio T-8 (it will weigh 240g @ 30ft) and Rio's blue intermediate (20# / 0.024") powerflex core running line. it will match up nicely on your 6wt.
Justin,

I'm with James, regarding a shooting head setup. I like the Frog Hair shooting lines for a running line; their 80# stuff for bigger fish (for good grip), and the 40# stuff for most light surf work. You can 'loop-to-loop' it with your backing and the shooting head, using 30' of Rio T-8 (240 grains) for slower sinking requirements or 17' of Rio T-14 (238 grains) when a faster trip to the bottom is needed and/or backcasting room is limited. You may need to use a little more or less shooting head than these recommendations, depending on the flex of your stick. Experiment with different lengths from the above starting points until the rod is slightly overloaded, and then take off smaller increments from there until you get it just right! (WARNING! Cut the head back in small amounts at a time and take your time balancing the rod - once you cut the head it can never get longer again) The good news about these setups is that you can cast them 100' easily, and the Frog Hair shooting line picks up and transmits every "tick" on the bottom as your fly searches out it's prey. No stretch either, so good solid hookups when strip striking. Limited memory as well, just like mine!

All that said, the intergrated lines (e.g. Teeny TS lines, S.A. Striper lines, etc.) are great lines, and are easier to cast for most folks, at least until one gets used to shooting head techniques. If you're going to fish in calmer waters I'd go integrated - in rough surf, with some sort of shooting head system. The latter also really excels when fishing from a kayak or small boat!

Kim Z.

As Kim Z has suggested I would go with a shooting head system for your 6 wt...I started off in the surf fishing a integrated shooting head system and thought it was good enough....but once I switched over to 30 ft of T-8 with a mono running line....my cast distance improved but more importantly my line control improved....mono has much less stretch compared with the running portion of an integrated line and you're able to feel all the little strikes and takes.....if you do go with a shooting head system don't forget to buy some stripping gloves....most of these running lines are slicker than a integrated running line and you need to use the gloves to grab the line....also...just me...I feel that 200 grain is a bit light for my six weights....not sure what you're throwing.....I use an Echo and a Sage XP.....the Rio T-8 is awesome on these rods or I would use a integrated line.....again this is just preference......

Adam

I'm very happy with the performance of SA Streamer Express in 200grns on my 6wt (Redington CPS SW ver). The integrated running line is fairly resistant to tangling (I give it a good stretch before fishing) and is easy to grip while stripping the line in.

I don't bomb out 100ft casts with this setup but, in most cases, I've never needed anywhere close to 100ft casts to get into fish in the surf. If it took 100ft casts to routinely get into fish, I'd be using a shooting head system (Rio's T-8 head mated to some sort of mono running line, most likely 30lb Suffix Elite).

one thing to keep in mind is that grain weight DOES NOT determine how fast your line will sink, line density does. faster sink rate = better line control in bigger surf / current. this is why a 240g Type 8 head can and will keep you on the bottom in big hydraulics better than a 400g type 6 head.

call me crazy but i have never felt the need to break out any of my bigger sticks (9-10-11 wts) for the surf regardless of the wind, surf or current. most of the time i am throwing a 5wt or my 6wt TiCr X. if i am fishing deeper water or there is bigger surf / current, i switch lines from my T-8 head to my rio outbound type 8 (wf6) integrated head that sinks at 8-9 ips (inches per second). this gets me on the bottom and keeps me there.

James is correct.

It is the density/diameter ratio that affects sink rates. The smaller the diameter the lass drag resistance. The denser the weight material (lead, tungsten, etc) the easier to reduce overall diameter.

Don't forget there are 500 grain floating lines (large diameter is necessary to disperse and float the weight), just as there are 100 grain sinking lines (small diameter concentrates weight and reduces drag).


I think I gave you this before, but there was period where Fliflicker lost months of posts (some back up issue
and it's no longer in the archives. I'm glad I copied it. Maybe not totally streamer based, but I think I see where your going with this

Justin

[beachbum]

Fish a streamer like you were fishing them in the surf the day we fished with Jon. A good leader that will turn over a big fly really helps. Think baitfish, and put them where the fish are. I use a sink tip in most rivers, or a sinking line on lakes and big water. I spent a decade obsessed with streamers, and my friends will vouch for that! There's is nothing quite like it.

[flyster]

Darn it Ryan, sink this, sink that, 200 grain, 500 grain, now I'm confused!! It doesn't take much to confuse me. Thanks allot!!!

[rkfiske]

Darn it Ryan, sink this, sink that, 200 grain, 500 grain, now I'm confused!! It doesn't take much to confuse me. Thanks allot!!!

How does it feel John!!

I think my main concern is that I'd like to be versatile without having to rely on a bunch of different lines. Hate to have to buy spools and lines.

[Bernard]

Everyone has some good counsel however I'd also like to suggest that you not over-think it and just get throwing. I'd really be surprised if anyone has not had a situation where there rig was far from appropriate for a streamer but they still lobbed it out there because the situation screamed for it. My latest local fishing escapade had a fish-of-the day take a #10 conehead muddler retrieved as fast as I could (see bottom fish at: http://trouthugger.blogspot.com/2010/05/nature-wins.html ) on a 5wt floating line with roughly 4x. This would definitely qualify as "light streamer" angling. In fact, much of the day I'd keep a much lighter size 12 unweighted bucktail handy and it caught tons of fish. Speaking of fly weight, conehead and clousers etc fish very differently than, say, synthetic and unweighted flies twice the size. That's another thing to consider. It's hard but gravitating towards less weight I think keeps one leaning closer to a more pleasurable casting experience! Sigh, and now to complicate things, nothing is more fun than dapping a 4 inch long barbell-eyed circus peanut into a deep eddie. Zero casting in this instance. Also note that sink rate of line can be just one factor when intended speed of retrieve is weighed against desired depth. For example, if you intend to slowly crawl a light bugger at great depth, it may be different than dragging a monstrous articulated zoo cougar at warp speed in 3 feet for water to provoke a reaction take. Coming to think of it, you might find that the same rig could work. I had one of those quad-tip systems for a long time and ended up using the intermediate and the the fastest sink tips only. Anyway ... I'm rambling. If you are truly prepared to dedicate gear just to streamers then all the power to you. There are many answers for many situations. Be ready to experiment a lot. Tell us what you decide and hopefully share the fruits of your foray into the dark side
B

[rkfiske]

Great writeup Bernard, as in all things fly related, simplicity is always an option. By the way your last double black diamond adventure looks amazing. Beautiful fish! I haven't been out in awhile, I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy!

[rayfound]

I'd really be surprised if anyone has not had a situation where there rig was far from appropriate for a streamer but they still lobbed it out there because the situation screamed for it.

Certainly you're not talking about a 00wt with 3ft of 4x as a leader and a #4 Bunny Leech. Ryan's seen that rig first hand

[RichardCullip]

I've got two basic streamer setups.

My first is a 5wt on which I use a 15ft sinktip line (Rio if I recall). I've had fun days on the Kings and the Kern with this setup. I chuck it across stream, throw a big upstream mend into the line, let it drift down and across and then I strip it back towards me. My biggest trout from the Kern came on this set up. I've also had good luck float-tubin' lakes with this setup. I'll slow troll a streamer (black woolly bugger) with a nymph trailer adjusting the depth of water I fish by the speed of my kicking and the amount of line I've got out.

My second is a 6wt that I use down in San Diego Bay and on the beach when the surf is too high for my 4wt setup. I've got this 6wt spooled up with Rio's Custom Cut Outbound Line. I use the T-8 version and I've cut the head back to 30ft. This gives me a nice 240grn head that loads up the 6wt just right. I haven't used this setup on any rivers yet. The 30ft sink-tip just seems too long and heavy for the trout streams I normally fish.

Good luck finding a setup that you like. Sometimes the terminology can get a bit confusing. When buying sinking lines you often have to deal with lines rated by their weight in grains. I like to put 200grn lines on my 5wt, 240 grn lines on my 6wt, and 300-330 grn lines on my 8wt. If you go with a shooting head/running line setup remember that shooting heads have an optimal length ranging from 25ft to 30ft. Anything under 25ft seems to dump (loop unrolls too soon) which limits the casting distance and anything over 30ft is hard to manage (unless you cast like Lefty) in the air.

[Bernard]

I'd really be surprised if anyone has not had a situation where there rig was far from appropriate for a streamer but they still lobbed it out there because the situation screamed for it.

Certainly you're not talking about a 00wt with 3ft of 4x as a leader and a #4 Bunny Leech. Ryan's seen that rig first hand

I needed a good laugh. Thanks!
B

[briansII]

I agree with Bernard. Don't over think this stuff.....yet. For river, 95% of the time, I just use a weighted streamer, and maybe some split shot, with a floating line. That way I can switch to a nymph or dry without much effort. No extra line to buy.........yet.

Watch your step. It gets slippery from here on out.

For stillwater trout fishing, I like a full sinking line. A type 3 can cover most of your bases, but I use a I line, down to a type 6. If I dedicate myself to dredging a river, I'll use the same(Rio)type 6, full sinking line. I have also used a sinktip type line, with a intermediate running line. For stillwater trout/LMB/panfish, I prefer full, integrated lines, over shooting head systems. I just enjoy casting them more. Either way, going to lakes will require you to buy a line....or 7. Tough to beat a shooting head system, for distance, and getting down deep in the shortest time possible. The head densities and weights are pretty basic stuff, but it does take minimal reading to get up to speed. The running lines are a whole nuther story. Many choices, and you'll find many failures.

briansII