Mexican Golden Trout and other species

[Sasha]

So a I was talking with a friend tonight about a post he made on another site about native Mexican trout species. Well he posted some links with some interesting info and I though that I would share them with you guys as well. It looks like it is time to plan a trip way down south


http://www.americanfishes.com/mexico/

http://www.americanfishes.com/mexico/co ... epaper.pdf

http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/tnhc/fish/res ... mexicanas/

[anacrime]

i would love to chase some of these trout. it would really be a relatively cheap trip, monetarily at least. the more remote the area in mexico, the more dangerous. from what i've read, free running creeks are a war zone down there. cartels fight each other for control to produce their crops. some day maybe...

[rayfound]

I'd read about them before. Interesting - I hope they are able to preserve it as a species. Does Mexico have anything in terms of a Hachery program that could be used to raise fingerlings and distribute them to some additional watersheds to ensure genetic stability?

I'll bet there remains a few places untouched enough for them to survive as a species, but I'm less than optomistic about a recovery.

[flybob]

ever see movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales" one word: Comancheros!

[flybob]

cartels fight each other for control to produce their crops.

Heck, sounds like some of our local fisheries!

[Sasha]

I don’t know if Mexico currently has any programs like that. I do think if enough people started going down there to fish (other than saltwater) that maybe their guberment might see it as a viable way to make money and start some programs (Ok I will put the pipe down now). From what I have heard the bass fishing is great in Mexico as well. As far as the drug dealers well this is Mexico just hire some “guides” when you go not the fishing type


In all honesty I do hope that they can get some things going and protect those species of trout.

[rayfound]

Well, they sure are pretty awesome looking, and distinct from the trouts we have here.








Source: http://www.americanfishes.com/mexico/chrysogaster%20slide%20show.htm

[Sasha]

Well, they sure are pretty awesome looking, and distinct from the trouts we have here.








Source: http://www.americanfishes.com/mexico/chrysogaster%20slide%20show.htm

That is what I thought as well. These fish are very good looking and very different. I do hope that they are able to get programs going to preserve them.

[Papasequoia]

Trout Unlimited devoted a lot of space about year or so ago in a couple of issues to the Mexican trout. Unfortunately, I have already recycled them, but you might find some more information about them on their website.

[StevenOjai]

OK I'm putting myself up on a soapbox...
All of the Mexican trout found along the Pacific Ocean side are long descendents of Coastal Rainbows that have been able to create their own subspecies over time. We have three subspecies, ourselves, in the Kern River Rainbow, Volcano Creek Golden, and Little Kern Golden. You can see smaller adaptations within the native Rainbow populations that you find in the various creeks and rivers we have in Southern California. You can only imagine how many more subspecies of Coastal Rainbows we would have within the Westside Sierras if they had escaped the last Ice Age period we had 10,000 years ago. Allowing the Coastal Rainbows to inhabit and prosper within it's home waters produces trout that are uniquely developed for that ecosystem. This may be critical in giving the species a chance to adapt to climate change. This is why I'm so much in favor of doing everything possible to encourage native wild trout and limiting hatchery introductions to only those waters that demand a high fishing pressure.
Time to get off the Soapbox...
Regards, Steve

[rayfound]

First off, Steve, this is a Great soapbox to be on.

All of the Mexican trout found along the Pacific Ocean side are long descendents of Coastal Rainbows that have been able to create their own subspecies over time.

I believe you are likely correct on this, and if the Mexican trout are studied more, I would expect their scintific name to be changed to include "Mykiss", as was done with the California Golden Trout (O. Mykiss Aguabonita)

Allowing the Coastal Rainbows to inhabit and prosper within it's home waters produces trout that are uniquely developed for that ecosystem. This may be critical in giving the species a chance to adapt to climate change. This is why I'm so much in favor of doing everything possible to encourage native wild trout and limiting hatchery introductions to only those waters that demand a high fishing pressure.

Agreed, but I believe hatchery programs can be critical in restoring the fish WITHIN their native ranges, as well as creating "genetic backups" for species in risk of extinction. (for example, the backcountry stocking in the Sierras (at least in places where rainbows didn't get in and interbreed) is a good genetic backup to the California Golden Trout.


I never ceased to be amazed at the tremendous diversity found within all Trouts. Its amazing to me that I can catch 2 fish, same species, same creek, SAME EXACT POOL, but distinct appearances.

[StevenOjai]

Thanks for the comments, Ray. You and I are certainly on the same page with regards to maintaining the health of our native trout. Allowing a little more soapbox stuff:
You wrote:

I believe hatchery programs can be critical in restoring the fish WITHIN their native ranges, as well as creating "genetic backups" for species in risk of extinction. (for example, the backcountry stocking in the Sierras (at least in places where rainbows didn't get in and interbreed) is a good genetic backup to the California Golden Trout.

Most of the CDFG hatchery programs are designed to provide catchable trout for the public. A successful program will have at least 50% of the planted trout caught within the first 2 weeks. Most of the Rainbow stock that is planted within California comes from the McCloud strains which have been propagated throughout the world for about 80 years. There are some Rainbow programs that do raise other strains such as Kamloop, Coleman (Steelhead), and Eagle Lake. And there are programs within the hatchery system which raise subspecies such as Kern River Rainbows, Little Kern Goldens, and Golden Trout which are released into their home waters. However, even our Golden Trout program within Cottonwood Lakes over 50 years unknowingly released hybridized Rainbows which threatened the genetic purity of the remaining Goldens within their system. My own professional background comes as a reforestation specialist were I raised over 45 million trees for planting in the Sierras, Cascades, and Coast Ranges. The Genetic makeup of the tree seedlings were paramount to their survival. Trees were planted within the same areas in which the seed was collected. Normally, this would be within 500 ft elevation bands of specific watersheds or seed zones. It is certainly much harder to maintain a "Genetic Backup" of fish than it is of seed. My point is that each of the watersheds develop a population of trout that is uniquely adapted to survive that area. For this reason, we need to concentrate on maintaining the health of those populations within their wild habitat. I really don't see the hatchery program being funded to act as a Genetic Bank but they could be very helpful in using discretion as to where and when they plant catchable trout.

Regards, Steve

[Benny]

Really great information guys.
Thanks for posting this up.

[rayfound]

Thanks for the comments, Ray. You and I are certainly on the same page with regards to maintaining the health of our native trout. Allowing a little more soapbox stuff:
You wrote:

I believe hatchery programs can be critical in restoring the fish WITHIN their native ranges, as well as creating "genetic backups" for species in risk of extinction. (for example, the backcountry stocking in the Sierras (at least in places where rainbows didn't get in and interbreed) is a good genetic backup to the California Golden Trout.

Most of the CDFG hatchery programs are designed to provide catchable trout for the public. A successful program will have at least 50% of the planted trout caught within the first 2 weeks. Most of the Rainbow stock that is planted within California comes from the McCloud strains which have been propagated throughout the world for about 80 years. There are some Rainbow programs that do raise other strains such as Kamloop, Coleman (Steelhead), and Eagle Lake. And there are programs within the hatchery system which raise subspecies such as Kern River Rainbows, Little Kern Goldens, and Golden Trout which are released into their home waters. However, even our Golden Trout program within Cottonwood Lakes over 50 years unknowingly released hybridized Rainbows which threatened the genetic purity of the remaining Goldens within their system. My own professional background comes as a reforestation specialist were I raised over 45 million trees for planting in the Sierras, Cascades, and Coast Ranges. The Genetic makeup of the tree seedlings were paramount to their survival. Trees were planted within the same areas in which the seed was collected. Normally, this would be within 500 ft elevation bands of specific watersheds or seed zones. It is certainly much harder to maintain a "Genetic Backup" of fish than it is of seed. My point is that each of the watersheds develop a population of trout that is uniquely adapted to survive that area. For this reason, we need to concentrate on maintaining the health of those populations within their wild habitat. I really don't see the hatchery program being funded to act as a Genetic Bank but they could be very helpful in using discretion as to where and when they plant catchable trout.

Regards, Steve

Great points Steve. Hacheries do come with a great possibility of errors, and as you suggest, protection and habitat restoration is the best medicine for fish species in trouble.

[Sasha]

Most of the CDFG hatchery programs are designed to provide catchable trout for the public. A successful program will have at least 50% of the planted trout caught within the first 2 weeks. Most of the Rainbow stock that is planted within California comes from the McCloud strains which have been propagated throughout the world for about 80 years. There are some Rainbow programs that do raise other strains such as Kamloop, Coleman (Steelhead), and Eagle Lake. And there are programs within the hatchery system which raise subspecies such as Kern River Rainbows, Little Kern Goldens, and Golden Trout which are released into their home waters. However, even our Golden Trout program within Cottonwood Lakes over 50 years unknowingly released hybridized Rainbows which threatened the genetic purity of the remaining Goldens within their system. My own professional background comes as a reforestation specialist were I raised over 45 million trees for planting in the Sierras, Cascades, and Coast Ranges. The Genetic makeup of the tree seedlings were paramount to their survival. Trees were planted within the same areas in which the seed was collected. Normally, this would be within 500 ft elevation bands of specific watersheds or seed zones. It is certainly much harder to maintain a "Genetic Backup" of fish than it is of seed. My point is that each of the watersheds develop a population of trout that is uniquely adapted to survive that area. For this reason, we need to concentrate on maintaining the health of those populations within their wild habitat. I really don't see the hatchery program being funded to act as a Genetic Bank but they could be very helpful in using discretion as to where and when they plant catchable trout.

Regards, Steve

Steve I agree with your post 100% if we want to protect wild trout populations. Do you think that it is possible that CDFG (or any other DFG) would use discretion as to where they stock considering the amount of fishing pressure in the US?