A Great Read.. Everyone Here should read this!!!!

[Chris Kuhn]

I won't buy those slick mags... i learn more by reading the posts here... agree with Jon.

I read them to have something pretty to look at when I am on the crapper.

Plus April Vokey is on the cover this month.

Seriously when I got to the part of the article where the guy was complaining about the mags not have enough info for the little guy, I didn't see it as elitist. I watch fishing shows and read the magazines as a way of seeing fisheries I may never even get to. I think the odds of my going to New Zealand are pretty slim. But I can dream can't I?

[Sasha]

* It, I no longer wish to be associated with you snobby * anymore……… I am quitting this elitist hobby and burning all of my equipment (including the 0wt SPLs' and SLT)

[1mocast]

It always boils down to what the "Market will Bear". MONEY...Profits...Brand Names...Marketing Hype...Capitalism.

Example: A Shop sells ONE High end rod (HIGH profit margin) and makes a couple hundred in profits. The same shop will need to sell (5 maybe?) of the under $100 rods to make the same profit. (My guess at the numbers)

Apply this to everything:
1) Trips to exotic destination XYZ...vs. Local waters...
2) DKNY vs. Kirkland Brand
3) Expensive French wine vs. 2 Buck Chuck...

Same way to make MONEY with different business models.

The FF industry needs more of the TFO type VALUE companies to lure in the masses. Unfortunately, the stereotype FF is more of the Mercedes Benz vs. the Honda crowd...Maybe thats how the FF Publications portray us to the masses???

I for one love my Honda and Kirkland products...

[nick562]

I can see it now, Kirkland flyrod Co. I can apply to be pro staff

[Lee-B]

I must have started four different replies and deleted them all because this is one of those topics for around a table either in a backyard or bar.......with booze. That way when I say something that is taken wrong I can explain better what I meant which I can't do in print. LOL

[Chris Kuhn]

It always boils down to what the "Market will Bear". MONEY...Profits...Brand Names...Marketing Hype...Capitalism.

Example: A Shop sells ONE High end rod (HIGH profit margin) and makes a couple hundred in profits. The same shop will need to sell (5 maybe?) of the under $100 rods to make the same profit. (My guess at the numbers)

Apply this to everything:
1) Trips to exotic destination XYZ...vs. Local waters...
2) DKNY vs. Kirkland Brand
3) Expensive French wine vs. 2 Buck Chuck...

Same way to make MONEY with different business models.

The FF industry needs more of the TFO type VALUE companies to lure in the masses. Unfortunately, the stereotype FF is more of the Mercedes Benz vs. the Honda crowd...Maybe thats how the FF Publications portray us to the masses???

I for one love my Honda and Kirkland products...

But let's face it we are probably more like the golf market than we like to believe. We like high end equipment and believe that part of the reason we are not catching more fish is because we need a faster, lighter rod.

As I was hearing from a friend of mine, that for every guy that was complaining about $700 waders, there would be a hundred guys that would come in and plunk down the cash and guess what they are not any less dedicated fisherman than you or I. Many of them probably get 150 to 200 days on the water, have the cash and figure if they are going to fish that much they might as well be comfortable. Yes there are TFO's there are also Shakespeares. There is plenty of low end equipment suppliers, btw a $150 rod is not a low end price point piece of equipment. It is just not a $700 rod.

This is a sport that attracts gadget heads, probably much more so than even spin fisherman. It also appeals to people who like to get into minutiae. I once saw a huge debate on one website over the difference between a blue winged olive and a needhami.

So while even when some flyshops offer the less expensive, less technologically advanced gimic, they don't sell as fast as the Sages and the Winstons.

[Chris Kuhn]

I must have started four different replies and deleted them all because this is one of those topics for around a table either in a backyard or bar.......with booze. That way when I say something that is taken wrong I can explain better what I meant which I can't do in print. LOL

And even if the guy takes offense you can look him straight in the eye and say, "Here have a beer."

[fflutterffly]

the article makes some interesting observations. I believe that most beginners are priced out of the sport because they are wise to many companies who's products a sold for less $$$ and give great value. Most beginners want the best item, not one that can work them for 2-5 years while they are enjoying the learning curve.

[hip]

I must have started four different replies and deleted them all because this is one of those topics for around a table either in a backyard or bar.......with booze. That way when I say something that is taken wrong I can explain better what I meant which I can't do in print. LOL

And even if the guy takes offense you can look him straight in the eye and say, "Here have a beer."

Ah let it be taken wrong it is more fun that way

Here's a funny observation I had visiting the Bass Pro Shop out by Riverside for the first time.
I was making my rounds and found the fly fishing department.

Talk about trying to perpetuate a stereotype.
The entire rest of the store is set up as a pretty standard big box store nothing fancy.
You walk into the fly fishing department and it is a separate room and it is set up to look like a Ivy league smoking room. Ha ha it is the biggest joke I've seen in fishing. You would think Bass pro shop had any sense they would try to break down these stereotypes.

For your average Bass guy walking into a Ivy league smoking room is like putting superman in a room full of kryptonite. jon

[Lee-B]

I've done a regular surf fly fishing presentation at that Bass Pro the last two years and here's what I found. They are set up the same across the country, gear, flies everything. I asked why there weren't any surf flies and was told even though the guys who work there want them, corporate stocks that store like one in mid America, no more no less. Amazing.

Oh, and if you want a stripping basket, you have to order it on line, not get it at a store.

Levi does a great job running both the fly and conventional shops and Kurt and the boys have a good handle on the fly shop. But they all have to work with what is given them and out here it may not mesh like it would in Colorado.

[Rockstar Fisherman]

All I can say is that fly fishing gear is way over priced!

[Bakoguy]

Geez My top ten
1) The magazine industry survives on advertisements and subscriptions. Pleasant Valley campground isn't advertising much these days hence the need for Fly Fish New Zealand. If the magazine doesn't fit don't subscribe.
2) There is low cost entry level gear available. I guarantee that this equipment is as affordable as golf equipment. Go price a road bike or mountain bike and you will believe a rod and reel are reasonable. Stack up that Cabella entry level gear or TFO vs a new Callaway driver or Trek road bike and tell me the other alternatives are better. There is no difference outfitting yourself for entry level fly fishing than most other outdoor sports. Buy a dozen Pro V1 golf balls and tell me flys from Hills Discount are expensive.
3) If you don't own a fly shop don't comment on what it takes to survive. Over 75% of new business fails within the first two years. Just like Darwin predicted the species gets better as the survivors reproduce.
4) Guarantee something for life no questions asked and then go price it in the marketplace so you don't go broke.
5) Just because you have an 00,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and a spey rod with reels to match don't assume that one good mid action 6wt won't suffice for everything.
6) I don't know one bass fisherman that doesn't have 3X the gear as even the most ardent flyfisherman. Do you know a serious bass fisher that doesn't have or share a boat. Compare the cost of a float tube to a good bass boat. Bass may be fun trout are an adventure.
7) Compare a season lift ticket at Mammoth, a round of golf at Pebble Beach or your local course to a day on any Western US fishery. Flyfishing is cheap by any comparison.
8) Thankfully, flyfishing is comprised of many individuals. No one model fits them all. Ask Dr Creek whether he would rather fish ETC Creek or the Clark Fork everyday. Ask another different answer.
9) I'd rather see hot spotting for the Rangatikki in New Zealand than a spring creek in the Sierras.
10) Most important. Who cares if the number of flyfishers are declining. I've seen to many of you buggers in my favorite runs. If you move on then WOOWhoo.
Just my thoughts after a half bottle of Red Zin. Off to the Hot Tube. Later I'll count my rods

[roanokejim]

Dean, to tell you the truth I had a hard time sticking with log homes and the whole mountain living thing with the the whole article add nausea.
But I got the jist of it.

Fly fishing is becoming bullsh_t.

As a industry perpetuating fly fishing, I really don't care anymore if the whole industry collapses.
Fly fishing is about fly fishing, not about the gear, magazines and what the industry can sell you.

Do you guys get this?

If the whole fly fishing industry collapses tomorrow it is not the end of fly fishing,
You do not need the industry to fly fish.

You can make your own rods, your own fly lines and the spirit of fly fishing lives on in your heart and your wrist.

I'm getting tired of hearing about the economics of fly fishing. When did it all become about money and selling.

* that, make your own rod, make your own line/ flies and do it for yourself. jon

Thanks Jon for you great post. I will surely make it on my own. Mind to help me to make my own rod?

[Flyjunkie]

Geez My top ten
1) The magazine industry survives on advertisements and subscriptions. Pleasant Valley campground isn't advertising much these days hence the need for Fly Fish New Zealand. If the magazine doesn't fit don't subscribe.
2) There is low cost entry level gear available. I guarantee that this equipment is as affordable as golf equipment. Go price a road bike or mountain bike and you will believe a rod and reel are reasonable. Stack up that Cabella entry level gear or TFO vs a new Callaway driver or Trek road bike and tell me the other alternatives are better. There is no difference outfitting yourself for entry level fly fishing than most other outdoor sports. Buy a dozen Pro V1 golf balls and tell me flys from Hills Discount are expensive.
3) If you don't own a fly shop don't comment on what it takes to survive. Over 75% of new business fails within the first two years. Just like Darwin predicted the species gets better as the survivors reproduce.
4) Guarantee something for life no questions asked and then go price it in the marketplace so you don't go broke.
5) Just because you have an 00,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and a spey rod with reels to match don't assume that one good mid action 6wt won't suffice for everything.
6) I don't know one bass fisherman that doesn't have 3X the gear as even the most ardent flyfisherman. Do you know a serious bass fisher that doesn't have or share a boat. Compare the cost of a float tube to a good bass boat. Bass may be fun trout are an adventure.
7) Compare a season lift ticket at Mammoth, a round of golf at Pebble Beach or your local course to a day on any Western US fishery. Flyfishing is cheap by any comparison.
8) Thankfully, flyfishing is comprised of many individuals. No one model fits them all. Ask Dr Creek whether he would rather fish ETC Creek or the Clark Fork everyday. Ask another different answer.
9) I'd rather see hot spotting for the Rangatikki in New Zealand than a spring creek in the Sierras.
10) Most important. Who cares if the number of flyfishers are declining. I've seen to many of you buggers in my favorite runs. If you move on then WOOWhoo.
Just my thoughts after a half bottle of Red Zin. Off to the Hot Tube. Later I'll count my rods

You nailed a lot of Good, spot on Points Bako!!!!
1.)I feel that beginners should stick with entry level rods and reels. a Rank Beginner doesn't know anything about Casting, they have to learn and improve their Casting. Buying a Top performance Rod isn't going to magically make them cast like a seasoned pro. Buying the best doesn't make you great if you do not even understand the basics. it's like giving a student driver a Formula 1 race car and making them enter the Indianapolis 500.. The Formula 1 racer isn't going to make them win. Besides some folks actually decide after flyfishing for sometime that it really isn't for them.. then they spent a great deal of Money and will not make it all back. As you get your casting improved and to the point it's automatic and second nature, then you can go after the top line rods...

2.) The folks asking that fly shops give them free casting lessons, free flyfishing classes, free fly tying lessons and discounts on everything. While the shops want to help out folks and bring in new folks to the Flyfishing world, you have to remember that they are in the business to make money. They have to pay rent, pay bills, buy merchandise, pay employees, pay themselves some money as well... Good shops do plenty of good things for beginners and often help them for free or give a discount at times... But to automatically expect Discounts and Free classes is cutting into their overhead.. I am certain that If folks came to your businesses and asked for free services and discounts, you'd most likely tell them no, because it would cut into your profit. Do not expect something from a business that you would not be willing to give at your own business.

3.) regarding Hot Spotting.. it would be easy to avoid.. follow the Bass fishing Magazines "Instructional" articles.. they do not hot spot special locations much.. usually just describe a hypothetical Location to use as an example... Articles about" Bass fishing in Farm ponds" or "fishing for bass around Drowned trees".. instructional, but they rarely Hot spot exact locations in them... Flyfishing Writers should follow suite...

4.) Yes Bass pro Folks always have a * of a lot more Rods & reels & gear then most flyfishers, their gear rooms look like some tackle shops I've been in... Plus Boats and such.. I'd be willing to beat bass pro type folks spend a great deal more money on gear then most flyfishers..

5.) Yeah a day of Golfing or a day's lift ticket is far more expensive then a day flyfishing.. Sooo Flyfishing is certainly a Cheaper activity when compared day in & day out.. also remember most quality companies have very good warranties on their Gear so your rods and reels should last you a long time.. You don't have to buy a New set up every year like it seems some skiers believe you have to....

6.) One thing that is annoying is the general view in flyfishing that it's all about Trout.. There are soo many other species that are tons of fun on a Flyrod... If you live in an area of the Country where there are Trout waters all over the place, I can understand having that frame of mind that Trout are what it's about.. but if you live in Louisiana and complain because there aren't any Brown or rainbow Trout in the state to catch.. I think you're deranged & Blind. It would be like living in Montana and thinking only about targeting Bonefish in the Florida Keys. Besides why Limit the enjoyment and relaxation that flyfishing provides us to only targeting Trout and limiting your fishing to a handful of trips each year.. forget that!! There's plenty of Fun, hard fighting Fish within an hour's drive of my front yard.. and I'm not selling my organs to fill up the gas tank to drive to far off destinations with the price of gas these days.. Close to home fishing Ops are out there, and they'll certainly keep you "frosty" at your casting, presentation and general fishing then 3 -4 trips each year..... besides a day on the water beats setting at home wishing you was fishing...

I'm enjoying Some Milk and Oreos myself... no Red Zin....

[hip]

Dean, to tell you the truth I had a hard time sticking with the whole article add nausea.
But I got the jist of it.

Fly fishing is becoming bullsh_t.

As a industry perpetuating fly fishing, I really don't care anymore if the whole industry collapses.
Fly fishing is about fly fishing, not about the gear, magazines and what the industry can sell you.

Do you guys get this?

If the whole fly fishing industry collapses tomorrow it is not the end of fly fishing,
You do not need the industry to fly fish.

You can make your own rods, your own fly lines and the spirit of fly fishing lives on in your heart and your wrist.

I'm getting tired of hearing about the economics of fly fishing. When did it all become about money and selling.

* that, make your own rod, make your own line/ flies and do it for yourself. jon

Thanks Jon for you great post. I will surely make it on my own. Mind to help me to make my own rod?

Don't mind at all but I'm sure if you go to the rod building forum you'll find all the help you need.
I made my first rod when I was in high school (no instructions) hand spinning it on some shoe boxes with cut outs to hold the rod in place and it came out fine.
As a matter of fact I still fish that rod.

Building a graphite or glass rod is really straight forward.
There is oodles and oodles of step by step info on the net for building a rod.

Pretty much if you can tie a wooly bugger you can build your own fly rod.
Just take it one guide at a time