Cal Trout, TU, or FFF: Who should get my money?

[RiverRat]

Shane from the Kern here......

I'm member of both local clubs to the Kern. The KRFF decided that membership requirement was not going to happen, period. That's 120 members not affiliated with the FFF. The SSFF is grandfathered and maybe we'll be forced into making an easy decision...another 120 members lost.


Benefits..free legal help and they help file the non profit paperwork

[RichardCullip]

Wow, what a crazy decision by the FFF.

Personally I use my company's matching fund program (they match dollar for dollar up to a limited amount) to give some money to both Cal Trout and the Friends of the Kernville Hatchery.

My suggestion - find a local non-profit that supports an issue you are interested in and send them your money. It's a bit hard to find a big national org without some issue or another that gives me grief.

[NorcalBob]

Well, Flycasters (San Jose) has around 250 members, and we're currently (and always have been) an Affiliate Club (no FFF membership requirement). But I would guess that if the FFF forces the issue and requires us to have 100% membership, that ain't gonna happen either!

[bcarter395]

Bcarter395 where abouts are you any local clubs worth getting into? Looking forward to your upcoming fishing reports!

Andy

I live here in Crowley Lake, and have been a Mono Co. transplant from SoCal for three years now. Amazingly, no one I work work with likes to fly fish, and I'm too busy when I'm fishing to make new friends. So I've been a lone wolf out on the water. I need to team up with someone to start getting some good pics and expand on my technique. I've heard of the Mammoth Fly Rodders, but I can't seem to find any information on these guys. I'm sure there are some good local projects/causes I can get invlolved with, I just need to do some more digging. Looks like I joined the right forum.

[bcarter395]

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I'm glad I joined the forum. I guess I'll give up on the free hat and start checking around for local causes. If anyone know of any clubs in the Northern Inyo or Southern Mono area, I'd be obliged. I know the Rush Creek Restoration is a controversial issue, but aside from the original litigants, does anyone know if there are any organizations fighting for the complete restoration? Thanks again.

[Papasequoia]

I live here in Crowley Lake, and have been a Mono Co. transplant from SoCal for three years now. [...] I'm sure there are some good local projects/causes I can get invlolved with, I just need to do some more digging. Looks like I joined the right forum.

FWIW, it's not a fishing group, but they do fight for water rights. Since you are in that area, the Mono Lake Committee has a special going on right now, instead of $25 membership they lowered it to $15 and are giving away a free 2012 Mono Lake calendar. You can't even buy a nice nature calendar these days for fifteen bucks, so you might want to consider them.
Also, I think that both TU and Cal Trout do some good things which is why I am a member of both. They get more done with their collective voice than most individuals can do alone. They can get the ear of legislators and they know who to turn to in the FF community for getting things done. Either one of them is deserving of your money, imo, but TU comes with a nice magazine as well if those things matter at all. They might not be working right in your area, right on your home waters, but they are working on improving fishing access and stream restorations and other important issues statewide and nationwide in the case of TU.

[sschung]

"We just had a serious debate over this FFF fee schedule and our clubs payment at the FFCOC board meetings. We also were giving a flat fee too for quite a long time. It was decided by board members long ago, so it was ancient history to me. Some of the "old guys" actually felt slighted and ignored ( as the story goes) by the FFF regime back then, so they felt the FFF only was worth so much. Our club has made a decision, and is moving forward."
Please tell me Shane, was the decision made to bail from the FFF, or to pay the "extortion" fee, or just do like us and continue paying the flat fee until the FFF stops cashing our checks? Inquiring minds want to know, especially since this inquiring mind is gonna be club Prez when this issue raises it's ugly head!

Bob,

We are actually going to pay up the difference. It was pretty small what we were paying to the FFF originally anyways. It was decided that FFF membership by club members was not crucial to the clubs health, but that the FFF national has a lot of resources that we should be using for our classes (i.e. materials and gear). Thus you do not have to be a member of the FFF to be a member of our club (FFCOC). I think only 1/3 of our club members are FFF members. Our club roster stand at 280 with a few honorarium members. How ever if there is a mandate that all members be a FFF member for clubs to be a part of the FFF umbrella, I don not think our club will remain a charter club. We feel that the community of our club comes first and that the FFF is there to help and support us as well.

Shane

[NorcalBob]

I sent an email to the FFF for clarification of eligibility date for Affiliate Membership and received a reply from Barbara Wuebber that said the FFF will let current Affiliate Members as of March 2011 retain the ability to continue in that category for 2012. She indicated the info posted on the FFF website that said that membership is no longer available for Affiliate membership is for NEW clubs joining the FFF after March 1 2011. So there is in reality no change in membership for existing clubs.

[RiverRat]

I sent an email to the FFF for clarification of eligibility date for Affiliate Membership and received a reply from Barbara Wuebber that said the FFF will let current Affiliate Members as of March 2011 retain the ability to continue in that category for 2012. She indicated the info posted on the FFF website that said that membership is no longer available for Affiliate membership is for NEW clubs joining the FFF after March 1 2011. So there is in reality no change in membership for existing clubs.

So they don't want new clubs...nice long term thinking. Just rely on the old clubs who's meetings start every month with the reading of obituaries like the FFF quarterly magazine does

shane

[NorcalBob]

"So they don't want new clubs...nice long term thinking. Just rely on the old clubs who's meetings start every month with the reading of obituaries like the FFF quarterly magazine does"
That is what pi$$es me off the most about all this. Don't want kids joining up with local clubs without significant extra $$$, or new clubs to affiliate with the FFF
Yeah, like most clubs need MORE fat, balding, gray haired curmudgeons!!!

[briansII]

Yeah, like most clubs need MORE fat, balding, gray haired curmudgeons!!!

It almost sounds like the FFF is making the above a requirement too. Makes you wonder who sits on the BOD for FFF. Fat, balding, grey haired, curmudgeons?

briansII

[msangler]

Hi all. First post here but I was alerted to the thread and feel I have some answers for you. You may not agree with all I have to say but it comes from facts and my heart.

I am the president of the Southwest Council, FFF, representing SoCal and So Nevada. I came in two years ago and if the balloting goes well, I will be here for two more years.

My answer to the topic question is belong to all three. CalTrout can lobby and take on lawsuits as they are not a non-profit. TU is obviously trout and that means a lot to most fly anglers. The FFF is all fish, all waters. We are the ones that developed the Certified Casting Program. We also started Project Healing Waters. We teach fly fishing for any species.

As for the complaint that some organization takes a stand on something you do not like and so will not support. I used to believe that way until I got more involved. This is a world in which we do not always agree with EVERYTHING someone says but we believe that overall, their motives are in the right place. Kind of like friendships. But if you feel strongly about one issue, you have two choices. One is to not support that group. The other is to get involved and try to change from within. The second one takes time and I am sure most would rather go fishing and leave it to someone else. I am that someone.
The SWC was not doing a whole lot when I came along. We are trying to get the clubs into the habit of working with each other and also giving them information that comes to us. In club management, fishing and conservation. Whatever they want or need.

I think you cleared up the misinformation about charters and affiliates. Even if you were an affiliate years ago and now you want to come back in, you are in. They have grandfathered in those clubs. New clubs are required to be 100% and Charters and here are some of the reasons. Again, you may not agree with them and I am always ready to hear alternatives.

For many years, FFF has given away lots of information and instruction. All of this was done with the intention that once they saw what the Federation offered, they would join. Years of this model have shown it does not work. Speaking from my own perspective as a Council president and what other Council presidents have told me, it is hard to make it to all events and requests. So do you do this for everyone? Just FFF members? Charter clubs? Most are feeling that we need to concentrate on those that continue to support the FFF. So from the outside and people not involved, it seems like an exclusionary tact. There are clubs in the US that have been asked over and over to become an Affiliate and never did. So this decision was made.

So what does it cost to join that becomes so prohibitive? 35.00 for most, 45.00 for an entire family and 15.00 if you are under 16. Those costs are less than your yearly expenses at Starbucks. And clubs get lots of benefits in reduced insurance costs, free rods at certain membership goals, easy access to casting instructors and pretty much whatever you can think of related to fly fishing. And if you are part of a group, your voice is heard better than as a solo.
Feel free to ask any questions about what we are doing or how we are moving forward. But one question I always ask of those that doubt. If you hunted, you would join the NRA. Why would you not support the ONLY national non-profit that represents your interests? Michael Schweit

[Pete]

Michael,
Thanks for your reply. Its good to hear the reasoning behind some of the decisions that are made.

Personal opinion: The FFF should be able to stand on its own merit and not have to force people to join. Just the fact that the FFF would force a club to have 100% FFF membership would give me second thoughts about joining the FFF. Again, just personal opinion.

Thanks,
Pete

[NorcalBob]

Mike, thanks for your reply, but I have serious issues with this policy.
I have some comments
"As for the complaint that some organization takes a stand on something you do not like and so will not support"
Organizations have to understand that there are pro's & con's with EVERY decision, especially those that involve asking for more $$$. I am active in my local club and on the BoD and weigh both sides of the decision very carefully. If you make the "wrong" decision, things you never thought about can come about. And since this is America and you can spend your money any ways you like, it's YOUR personal choice how to spend YOUR money. I was an FFF member for over 30 years, and quite frankly I see no good in this decision, and so I quit. That may seem rash, but hey, it's the only way I have to voice my displeasure and I'm voting with my feet.
"Even if you were an affiliate years ago and now you want to come back in, you are in"
Not according to Barbara Wuebber. She emphasized that only Affiliate's in good, current standing may continue to participate as an Affiliate in 2012. While I'm reading between the lines here, the response I received seems to indicate that the FFF is considering doing away with Affiliate's altogether and wants every club to be a Charter. Bad policy, IMNSHO, and hopefully that won't happen.
"So what does it cost to join that becomes so prohibitive?"
Try explaining that to a twenty something kid, who just graduated from college and has to watch finances. The fact is, the majority of the FFF are old rich white dudes (and I bet that describes the FFF BoD). Why should over half of my money go to the FFF as opposed to the local club (my son tried to join a local club, $25 local club dues, $35 FFF dues)? $35 may not seem a lot to you, but for a kid struggling at $15 an hour in this economy, that's significant. Just keep this policy up and you will continue the membership as old rich white dudes. And yeah, I'm a old rich white dude!
"For many years, FFF has given away lots of information and instruction. All of this was done with the intention that once they saw what the Federation offered, they would join. Years of this model have shown it does not work. Speaking from my own perspective as a Council president and what other Council presidents have told me, it is hard to make it to all events and requests. So do you do this for everyone? Just FFF members? Charter clubs? Most are feeling that we need to concentrate on those that continue to support the FFF. So from the outside and people not involved, it seems like an exclusionary tact. There are clubs in the US that have been asked over and over to become an Affiliate and never did. So this decision was made."
I used to own a small local fly shop. Just substitute "local fly shop" every time you say "FFF" and you described my daily business situation. If I only offered services to those that were already customers (substitute members) what do you think would happen?
"And clubs get lots of benefits"
Not my local club. We were formed before the FFF ever existed and all the good points you cite by the FFF are already covered by my local club. Less than 25% of my local club are FFF members (estimated) and my guess is if we were forced to go Charter we would lose over half our members over the $35 annual dues requirement for FFF. How is that good for the sport of fly fishing?
I would rather the FFF try and get younger people involved in this fantastic activity of fly fishing, than "force" people to join their organization. I'm a lucky dog, I'm on several FF pro staffs, been active in clubs for over 30 years, and get paid to do presentations at fly clubs. So I see a lot of fly clubs, and I am very disturbed by all the old rich white dudes I see at every meeting I attend and the complete lack of younger people. And this policy, IMNSHO, will continue the trend.

[msangler]

Pete, when you say the FFF should be able to stand on it's own. Not sure what that means. Secure their own finding sources? Go for the individual?

Bob, taking a stand and voting with your feet is fine. Personal choice but no groups (defined as more than 3 people) will ever completely agree with each other or other groups. My problem with this thinking is this is how we got where we are on the MLPA, Delta issues and a few others related to water and fish. Fishing groups in general do not talk to each other because of this and yes, divided we fall. I look for the common ground unless the disputed area is a complete no sell.

I spoke to Barbara today and something was lost in the translation. If you were an affiliate club of the FFF 20 years ago and you want to come back as such, you can. Quote me on that. This charter policy is only for newly formed clubs.

As for the 15.00/hour angler, I find it hard to believe that they cannot afford 35.00 per year. They spend more than that on flies, leaders and materials. Tough choices to make but we all make choices. There are some FFF specials for membership but you usually hear about them through a club or other FFF member.

You equate giving time to your giving time in your fly shop. Our currency is volunteer hours and we have less of those. Sometimes you get a return on your investment. Other times you do not. Again, choices.

Finally, the youth problem. Many minds are working on this. I was up in Ellensberg, WA with all the "old, white haired guys". Know where the youth was? Fly Fishing Film Tour. We need to connect those dots. Having more brains working on this could make it happen. You have time to write. Contact me through the SWCFFF website and let's see what could be done. MS