Downstream Presentation with Nymph

[BrianDigital]

I have a question when using a downstream presentation with a nymph rig. Basically I want to know if it is possible to use this technique without missing strikes. Whenever I use this technique I always fear that my fly is way ahead of my indicator, thus missing strikes because the fish spit out the fly before the my thingabobber can react. Am I being paranoid or is this a real downside to this presentation. I really don't like using an upstream presentation because of the possibility of the fish seeing my fly line. Here is a pic describing what I mean. Any suggestions and advice is appreciated.

[fflutterffly]

this is a great question and one I believe will bring much discussion.

[ptflashback]

Brian:

Here's my advice, take it for what it's worth. I've ran the gauntlet with nymphing and tried everything from Czech, dead drifting, etc. In my opinion, "High-stick" nymphing is where it's at in terms of simple, but effective presentation.

Here's the benefit in terms of your question: Fish won't see your fly line because your actual fly line never touches the water. Additionally, it's not uncommon to hook up at the end of the presentation as you stretch the extended arm.

I recommend that if you are unfamiliar with the high-stick, then check out a YouTube video. You'll be glad you did.

[planettrout]

READ:

http://stevenojai.tripod.com/nymph.htm

http://www.flyfisherman.com/2011/07/13/trout-tactics/

99 % of the time, when I use an intentional down stream presentation - starting quartering downstream with a nymph - I am NOT using an indicator and the fly (or flies) is a flymph, wet or soft hackle...because my connection with the offering(s) is almost straight, I WILL "feel" the take...There is very little slack in the system...That is for nymphing...with dries, cripples, emergers and streamers, other techniques come into play...

I forgot to mention that the "key" to really effective down stream presentation, is in the mending process...learn to use the hydraulics of the water to your advantage, short swings, drops and lifts...learning how to do this will allow one to make presentations to holding fish where other methods just won't work...big sweepers come to mind...so do deep, undercut banks with dark holes

PT/TB

[rkfiske]

READ:

http://stevenojai.tripod.com/nymph.htm

http://www.flyfisherman.com/2011/07/13/trout-tactics/

99 % of the time, when I use an intentional down stream presentation - starting quartering downstream with a nymph - I am NOT using an indicator and the fly (or flies) is a flymph, wet or soft hackle...because my connection with the offering(s) is almost straight, I WILL "feel" the take...There is very little slack in the system...That is for nymphing...with dries, cripples, emergers and streamers, other techniques come into play...

PT/TB

PT is right on about this method. It's also extremely effective. When I fish soft hackles, its often the method I use though sometimes it almost feels like lazy cheating! When you set, don't set too hard otherwise in this particular presentation it's easy to rip the fly out of their mouths. Sometimes setting more laterally can prove more effective, or not setting much at all sometimes. Often the fish will set the hook themselves.

[John Harper]

I just dead drift the nymph downstream sans indicator. Just let it drift down with the current, maybe play out a little line as it continues downstream. Maybe I'm naive or lucky, but I rarely get hung up and can just repeat the drift over and over to entice something to bite. I guess it's kinda hybrid high sticking.

John

[NorcalBob]

There are so many nymphing techniques available today it can spin your head. If you want a dead drift, not a swung drift, downstream nymphing with an indicator is a deadly technique. Downstream nymphing with a bobbicator is a very used and successful technique for fishing egg patterns in AK, and if you travel there during the egg hatch you will be using it a bunch, so make sure you have this technique in your * before you go. On my just concluded trip to AK, I would estimate that I used this technique 80% of the time. But it's not just a technique you can use in AK as the benefits can be used right here in CA also! Why use a downstream approach with an indicator? Because you can cover huge quantities of potential holding water with a single cast up to the length of your entire flyline (yep, over 90'). Another side benefit is presenting your fly first, before your leader, bobbicator, and flyline come into view of the fish. When fishing huge gravel bars where the fish could be anywhere along it, it is a very valuable and productive technique. As others have said, the key is in the mending process, and by using primarily stack mends and a combination of other mends you can be deadly with this technique. The basic concept is simple, but the execution can be a challenge and all you do is cast along your desired drift line and throw stack mends just upstream of your indicator all throughout your downstream drift.
To answer your specific questions:
"Basically I want to know if it is possible to use this technique without missing strikes. Whenever I use this technique I always fear that my fly is way ahead of my indicator, thus missing strikes because the fish spit out the fly before the my thingabobber can react. Am I being paranoid or is this a real downside to this presentation"
Yes, it is possible, but you will indeed miss strikes because the key to the technique is adding slack flyline to extend your dead drift. Too much slack and you miss the fish! Too little slack and your fly does not dead drift and swings in front of the indicator too far. So you have to be "just right" in the amount of slack flyline you add. Experience is the key to being a deadly drifter! But if you learn the technique well, you will outfish everyone, and the amount of missed strikes will not be large compared to the number of added strikes you get by extending your drift.

[lucfish]

This is a good topic. PT is correct about using the hydraulics to your advantage and NorcalBob explains perfectly the effectiveness of the indicator method. I think you want to know is downstream nymph with an indicator so here is my take on it. Once mastered an extremely effective method. Here is a one minute video of my uncle and myself fishing for steelhead with an indicator. After the video I'll TRY to explain what were doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvZHGjkC ... ideo_title

First off we have fished together many, many times over the years so we know when to cast and mend so we don't cross each others line. If you look after the cast I "throw" line at the indicator to "lift" the indicator upstream.(stacking) This gets the flies down quickly and underneath the indicator for that "dead drift" that I'm looking for. After I'm satisfied with the location of the indicator I start to mend line. Now there are different ways to do this but for this I'm going to talk about how I do it in the video. You need line to work with, I'm drifting this 60 or so feet downstream so I've got that 60 feet in the boat. I lift up the rod and this gives me slack between the rod tip and the water, then I "flip" the rod towards the indicator which throws a "corksrcew" of line towards the indicator and settles just before it hits the indicator. Now you've got a dead drift, keep repeating to maintain the dead drift. After about 40 feet or so (on this particular drift) I start lifting the rod more or less straight up and down and while on the downward stroke I feed the line from my off hand towards the first guide. It looks in the video I'm stripping in but I'm feeding line out trying to go at the same speed as the water. On this drift the indicator goes down at the end of the drift and I set the hook. Notice I set the hook "downstream" (left side of my body) even though I'm almost directly below the indicator. This is important when trout fishing especially with an indicator. It's pretty simple really if the water is going down stream from your right side to left side set the hook to your left, from left to right set to your right, if at all posssible not straight up or "upstream" You will still miss fish it's fishing but not as many. Now looking at it on the video and doing it is two different things but with practice, practice , practice it does become second nature and you WILL catch more fish. Hope this helps.

[NorcalBob]

Luc's video is a perfect example of how to accomplish a perfect downstream dead drift, and every fly flinger should learn this deadly technique. I'd bet a six pack that Luc would be deadly on a spawning bed in AK!!!!

[briansII]

It's pretty simple really if the water is going from left to right set the hook to your left, from right to left set to your right, if at all posssible not straight up or "upstream" You will still miss fish it's fishing but not as many. Now looking at it on the video and doing it is two different things but with practice, practice , practice it does become second nature and you WILL catch more fish. Hope this helps.

Great video Luc. As they say, a picture is worth a 1,000 words. This video really shows what you need to do, to get a good drift. It's looks like you are very busy.....and you are, but that's what it takes when the current is moving at a good clip.

Sac River Drifters?

To the original poster. I'll go ahead and throw this out there. If you are concerned the fly is drifting in front of the indicator, take the indi off. As planettrout explains, you will have a more direct connection, and you will feel, or see the bite. Watch you line/leader as you would an indicator. You might be surprised at your results. Be aware that many of the takes will be at the end of the drift, as the fly lifts. "Fishing" the nymph back to you can also be effective.

briansII

[BrianDigital]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Norcal Bob, your explanation answered my question on to why my fly is ahead of my indicator. It is a speed issue that I am having when I am letting out more line. I am not mending line out fast enough which does not allow enough slack for my indicator to properly drift, thus letting the fly float in front. I need to work on my timing when letting line out, like you said finding that sweet spot. I guess I just need to fish more to master this technique .

[lucfish]

Luc's video is a perfect example of how to accomplish a perfect downstream dead drift, and every fly flinger should learn this deadly technique. I'd bet a six pack that Luc would be deadly on a spawning bed in AK!!!!

I've been fortunate enough to get my share of steelhead and trout using this method. It's all about the dead drift and being ready for the little takes that you sometimes get. I've always liked this method, it reminds me of fishing for bluegill under a bobber when I was a kid, although I don't use it as much as I used to, if I think I can get a fish or two skating a dry for steelies or dead drifting to a rising brown even though I'll catch less fish it's still the preferred method for me, I don't care about numbers anymore it's HOW I catch em that gives me the biggest thrill.

[lucfish]

It's pretty simple really if the water is going from left to right set the hook to your left, from right to left set to your right, if at all posssible not straight up or "upstream" You will still miss fish it's fishing but not as many. Now looking at it on the video and doing it is two different things but with practice, practice , practice it does become second nature and you WILL catch more fish. Hope this helps.

Great video Luc. As they say, a picture is worth a 1,000 words. This video really shows what you need to do, to get a good drift. It's looks like you are very busy.....and you are, but that's what it takes when the current is moving at a good clip.

Sac River Drifters?

To the original poster. I'll go ahead and throw this out there. If you are concerned the fly is drifting in front of the indicator, take the indi off. As planettrout explains, you will have a more direct connection, and you will feel, or see the bite. Watch you line/leader as you would an indicator. You might be surprised at your results. Be aware that many of the takes will be at the end of the drift, as the fly lifts. "Fishing" the nymph back to you can also be effective.

briansII

Actually at the time I was fishing with Brad Mcfall and his permit was through Sac River. Brad now has his own permit and sadly Sac River Outfitters is no longer, bad management I've been told. It's too bad they were a great bunch of guys, most went to Confluence.

[Artin]

Awesome topic, PT is on point. I dripped the indie earlier this year and it's frustrating at first for sure but very rewarding once you get a feel for it. I'm still in the break in process and love it. Much more rewarding. Although Lucfish's video is very informantive, I will give it a shot.
Lucfish,
Can you drop some info about the video, time of year/guides etc.Brad Mcfall is no longer with Sac. River? Do you have any experience with Confluence? I would love to check it out.


Artin

[lucfish]

Awesome topic, PT is on point. I dripped the indie earlier this year and it's frustrating at first for sure but very rewarding once you get a feel for it. I'm still in the break in process and love it. Much more rewarding. Although Lucfish's video is very informantive, I will give it a shot.
Lucfish,
Can you drop some info about the video, time of year/guides etc.Brad Mcfall is no longer with Sac. River? Do you have any experience with Confluence? I would love to check it out.


Artin

Sure Artin. The video was done I think 3 years ago along with a few others, I will let you know where you can access them in a few sentences. Fishing for steelhead early winter water temps was in the really low 40's and for steelhead at least with those cold water temps. indicator fishing is by far the most productive method yet invented to catch them with a flyrod. Notice I didn't say most fun (although it is a hoot) but if you want a strike when the water temps are that low you really need to cover the water thoroughy and the flies need to be on the bottom. As stated earlier I would much rather swing but I might swing for 3 days and not get a touch when the water is too cold and the fish are lethargic and that's when the indicator shines. Sac River Outfitters is no longer but some of the guides went independant and some went to Confluence. Some got out of the business and got a job outside of guiding. I liked those guys, they fished dawn to dark. There are good guides at Confluence but some of them will only swing flies and others will not use egg patterns when fishing for steelhead. I'm not going to get into a physiological disscussion about this but it is something you need to know BEFORE you hire a guide. Now back to Brad. Everybody has their favorites and I'm not going to say he's the best steelhead guide on the river he fishes (but I've had many guides tell me that!) but in the over 100 times I fished steelhead with him I landed a steelhead everyday I fished and that includes some pretty chocolate water. There is alot of luck with that and more than once it was the last cast of a 12 hour day and it's still fishing and you never know. But he's a great, great teacher and he knows how to get you in position to make the right cast. He now has his own permit to guide for steelhead so he doesn't need to work under somebody elses permit. My recomendation would be to go to his website mammothflyfishing.com. Click on his availablity calender and you'll see how busy he is during steelhead time. I did check just before I wrote this and he does have some days still available and sometimes when he marks "off" he will still fish, you just need to get a hold of him. He fishes there till the end of Jan but last year A couple of friends of mine had him go back out in the middle of Feb. which was cool seeing we had the whole river to ourselves on that trip. If he is booked on the day you would want to go he knows the best available guides (it's a network they all keep in touch with each other on a daily basis) While your on his website check out his youtube and you will see more fishing action. Don't want to hijack the post but I can't talk enough about Brad, a great friend and guide. Here is a picture of a steelhead I got indicator fishing with him a couple of years ago. If you have any other questions feel free to ask me either here or PM.