How not to catch and release!

by **fly addict** » February 12th, 2012, 11:10 pm

This is how a guy who calls himself a guide handles fish on the EW that he plans on releasing. Notice the rest of idiots who think they also know how to properly release a fish, come to his rescue when I ask him if was going to release them after he lays the fish on the beach. Check out the idiot “matt 44” with his photo of 2 dead fish. You think he practices C&R? I wonder how long a guy like that would last on this forum, where we actually care and try out best to release a fish unharmed. And they wonder why I don’t post on their catch and kill site.
http://fishingnetwork.net/forum4/showth ... ast-Walker

Mark

by **tenandtwo** » February 12th, 2012, 11:23 pm

Quote Originally Posted by fly addict
Did you keep the fish that you had laying on the gravel?
If you have something to say, why don't you just say it?

Uh... I think he just said step up...

by **Papasequoia** » February 13th, 2012, 12:00 am

It is interesting how people think that just because a fish swims away that means that it will automatically survive the encounter. It's like, I can stab someone and if they stagger out my front door, well heck, they will survive. Out of sight, out of mind. Some people are glad to learn about proper release techniques and how the removal of protective slime by dry hands or sand/rocks/gravel/hands etc. can lead to infection and death later on. Some just don't want to know. Like the person who staggers out my front door - I'd rather not know if they succumb to their wounds later on, because then I would be culpable.

Ignorant people have an excuse - they're ignorant. Guides have no excuse. Whatever. People who enjoy the "it's like shooting fish in a barrel" fishing trip (as stated in a previous post on that site) will probably never get it.

by **Sierra Fred** » February 13th, 2012, 12:17 am

Do all the fish you catch and release survive?

Tight Lines ... Fred

by **Papasequoia** » February 13th, 2012, 12:34 am

Sierra Fred wrote:Do all the fish you catch and release survive?

Tight Lines ... Fred

I don't know if this is addressed to me or Mark, but I'm sure that all of the fish I release don't survive given all that I have read about mortality statistics. And I'm ok with that - the bottom line is that it's a blood sport, even if that is not your intention. I'm also fine with people keeping fish within legal limits most of the time. (that idiot from Tahoe killing all of those big goldens would be an exception). Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is moral or correct.

However, people who claim that they are "releasing fish" but do not handle them properly, nor want to learn how to handle them properly, is something I have a problem with. I don't care if it is a bait fisherman who rips a treble hook with power bait out of the guts of a fish he considers too small and throws it back or a fishing guide on the EW who lays a fish on the gravel for a photo op before "releasing" it - neither one of them is following the proper guidelines for catch and release and they should be called on it. Some fish mortality is going to take place during fishing no matter what, and if you are going to fish you have to accept that. But if you are going to consider yourself a catch and release fisherman, you darn well better follow best practices for catch and release whenever possible - and laying fish on dry dirt isn't one of them. That's my opinion anyway, and it is worth exactly

just like that of anybody else who may want to chime in on the subject.

by **Rasputinj** » February 13th, 2012, 12:34 am

Sierra Fred wrote:Do all the fish you catch and release survive?

Tight Lines ... Fred

I thought the % is in the 90s, would be higher except for people who C&R like that. I enjoy when I catch the same fish over and over, and it gets bigger each time. I like my trout released, I am always amazed on small creeks in SoCal that are not stocked and people are keeping trout, most of the creeks do not have that many to begin with. I end up having to hike further and further to find fish.

by **briansII** » February 13th, 2012, 10:07 am

Papasequoia wrote:
Sierra Fred wrote:Do all the fish you catch and release survive?

Tight Lines ... Fred

I don't know if this is addressed to me or Mark, but I'm sure that all of the fish I release don't survive given all that I have read about mortality statistics. And I'm ok with that - the bottom line is that it's a blood sport, even if that is not your intention. I'm also fine with people keeping fish within legal limits most of the time. (that idiot from Tahoe killing all of those big goldens would be an exception). Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is moral or correct.

However, people who claim that they are "releasing fish" but do not handle them properly, nor want to learn how to handle them properly, is something I have a problem with. I don't care if it is a bait fisherman who rips a treble hook with power bait out of the guts of a fish he considers too small and throws it back or a fishing guide on the EW who lays a fish on the gravel for a photo op before "releasing" it - neither one of them is following the proper guidelines for catch and release and they should be called on it. Some fish mortality is going to take place during fishing no matter what, and if you are going to fish you have to accept that. But if you are going to consider yourself a catch and release fisherman, you darn well better follow best practices for catch and release whenever possible - and laying fish on dry dirt isn't one of them. That's my opinion anyway, and it is worth exactly just like that of anybody else who may want to chime in on the subject.

Agreed. You pretty much covered it for me.

Is this the way we handle trout before release.

His reply. "If your careful with your fish you can lay them for the photo and release to fight another day.... "

IMHO, if you are "careful", you would not lay a trout on the dry, gravel bank. Pretty obvious this shot was setup. Even if this person is a "professional guide", it would take a little extra time to get everything in place, and snap a photo. Big fish, size #22 flies, how long did it take to land that fish. How long, is too long out of the water.

I'm glade I don't read that forum. It would drive me nuts.

briansII

by **John Harper** » February 13th, 2012, 11:15 am

I've mentioned some of the questionable posing of fish on that forum and got lit up by a bunch of power baiters.

It's a catch, kill, and eat forum.

John

by **WanderingBlues** » February 13th, 2012, 11:21 am

A guide fishing a C&R section should know better than to take a pic like that. It sets a precedent to other folks that it's 'okay' or 'cool' because a guide does it.... Theoretically, lets say that fish is as dumb as a box of nails and gets caught 5-6 times a week. What would its life expectancy be if all the anglers handled it in a similar manner?

It's not illegal or immoral, or for that matter, unethical. But, it's not best practice either. And, that's something we should all strive for.

by **lucfish** » February 13th, 2012, 12:04 pm

Just a quick comment. That guide has been doing this sort of things for years. He's also "pushed" people out of a productive spot, I have first hand knowledge of this. The thing is he thinks it's OK and right to do this. Fact is your not going to change him and it just gets your blood boiling for something you can't do anything about. We can try to educate but if the person doesn't want to listen there isn't a damm thing you can do about it. That's why I think there should be a closed season on the EW when the flows are down. Give the fish a chance. Sometimes you have to pick your fights and I for one cannot stress out everytime an idiot is being who they are. Life's too short.

by **Sasha** » February 13th, 2012, 12:52 pm

Hmmm after the last thread like this. I am trying to decide if I want to even join in

by **WanderingBlues** » February 13th, 2012, 12:56 pm

Sasha wrote:Hmmm after the last thread like this. I am trying to decide if I want to even join in

Get in there, Tiger!

by **John Harper** » February 13th, 2012, 2:06 pm

fly addict wrote:This is how a guy who calls himself a guide handles fish on the EW that he plans on releasing. Notice the rest of idiots who think they also know how to properly release a fish, come to his rescue when I ask him if was going to release them after he lays the fish on the beach. Check out the idiot “matt 44” with his photo of 2 dead fish. You think he practices C&R? I wonder how long a guy like that would last on this forum, where we actually care and try out best to release a fish unharmed. And they wonder why I don’t post on this catch and kill site.
http://fishingnetwork.net/forum4/showth ... ast-Walker

Mark

Mark,

They're busting your chops too! I was the guy that called Matt44 on his C&R technique. He blasted me with the same crap about #posts, lurking, etc. You even got the attention of Sierra Smitty, who runs Parchers up in Bishop Canyn. I've pretty much stopped even looking at that site.

John

by **The Steady Foot** » February 13th, 2012, 2:31 pm

Sierra Fred wrote:Do all the fish you catch and release survive?

Tight Lines ... Fred

Obviously this is an impossible question to answer because the truth is whether the fish lives or dies, we all see it swim off.

But I have photographic evidence of catching and releasing the same fish on multiple occassions from SoCall creeks and the Kern. Proper catch and release is not trivial, it is tried and true. To be fair, I know for sure that I killed 3 fish over the past 4 years of fly fishing. In that time I caught countless hundreds of fish.

Also, consider the research on rivers like the Green. It is all catch and release fly fishing and the average fish is caught ~7 times a season (and with something like 3500 fish per mile that is really saying something). Its hard to argue with that.

BTW, are you still around or was that just intended to spark debate?

by **Flatsix** » February 13th, 2012, 4:53 pm

I checked the thread and it looks like one of the regulars with a high post count is attempting to enlighten the offenders.

I have to admit that when I had an assortment of color and scent combinations of Powerbait in my tackle box that I always assumed that if the fish could swim then it was all good.

I didn't know anything about C&R, fish slime, lactic buildup, gill damage etc.

The guys on the FNN site tend to get their backs up when confronted.

It's OK to be ignorant, it's not OK to be obstinate in light of obvious facts.