Weapons in the San Bernardino Nat'l Forest

[bc6854]

Dr. Creek, I have a ccw permit, attended all of the classes required by the state and I am still in doubt about alot of the gun laws, but my understanding is while fishing you are allowed to carry, but you are not allowed to protect your personal property with a weapon, only if you feel personally threatened and the person or persons has something in their hand that can do you bodily harm can you pull a weapon and believe me they better have something in their hand that can harm you, if they don't,you are going to jail for brandishing a weapon and that is some serious trouble for you. California has some crazy gun laws. Bob

[bc6854]

Dr I might add you can legally carry in national forests but not national parks. Bob

[Sasha]

Dr I might add you can legally carry in national forests but not national parks. Bob

That will be chganging soon

Interior Announces Final Firearms Policy Update


WASHINGTON, D.C. – Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Fish and Wildlife and Parks Lyle Laverty today announced that the Department of the Interior has finalized updated regulations governing the possession of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges. The final rule, which updates existing regulations, would allow an individual to carry a concealed weapon in national parks and wildlife refuges if, and only if, the individual is authorized to carry a concealed weapon under state law in the state in which the national park or refuge is located. The update has been submitted to the Federal Register for publication and is available to the public on www.doi.gov.
Existing regulations regarding the carrying of firearms remain otherwise unchanged, particularly limitations on poaching and target practice and prohibitions on carrying firearms in federal buildings.

“America was founded on the idea that the federal and state governments work together to serve the public and preserve our natural resources,” Laverty said. “The Department’s final regulation respects this tradition by allowing individuals to carry concealed firearms in federal park units and refuges to the extent that they could lawfully do so under state law. This is the same basic approach adopted by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the United States Forest Service (USFS), both of which allow visitors to carry weapons consistent with applicable federal and state laws.”

On February 22, 2008, Interior Secretary Kempthorne responded to letters from 51 Senators, both Democrats and Republicans, as well as from the Chairman and Ranking Member of the House Natural Resources Committee, urging him to update existing regulations that prohibit the carrying of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges. In his response, the Secretary directed Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks Lyle Laverty “to develop and propose for public comment by April 30 Federal regulations that will update firearms policies on these lands to reflect existing Federal laws (such as those prohibiting weapons in Federal buildings) and the laws by which the host states govern transporting and carrying of firearms on their analogous public lands.”

Changes in the final regulations from those originally proposed in April were developed as the result of public comments. In particular, comments expressed concern about the feasibility of implementing regulations which directly linked the carrying of concealed firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges to the ability of an individual to carry a concealed firearm on analogous state lands. The final regulations remove that potential logistical hurdle.

The existing regulations, as currently in effect, were adopted in 1981 for national wildlife refuges and in 1983 for national parks. Since that time many states have enacted new firearms policies. Currently, 48 states have passed legislation allowing for the lawful possession of concealed weapons.

“The Department believes that in managing parks and refuges we should, as appropriate, make every effort to give the greatest respect to the democratic judgments of State legislatures with respect to concealed firearms,” said Laverty. “Federal agencies have a responsibility to recognize the expertise of the States in this area, and federal regulations should be developed and implemented in a manner that respects state prerogatives and authority.”

[Sasha]

Doc here is California penal code section you want to read through is 12027. Here is the part that you would be interested in.

California Penal Code Section 12027

Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(f) Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose
of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges,
whether public or private, while the members are using pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms
unloaded when going to and from the ranges.

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

Here is 12025 for reference.

California Penal Code Section 12025

(a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:
(1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,
or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.
(2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had
reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
(3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street
gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the
Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11
(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.

(4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm,
as defined in this section, or the person is within a class of
persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to
Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony.
(5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a
person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.

(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to
(6), inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one
year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of
paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) if the peace officer has probable
cause to believe that the person is not listed with the Department of
Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section
11106 as the registered owner of the pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, and one or more
of the conditions in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision
(b) is met.
(d) (1) Every person convicted under this section who previously
has been convicted of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section
12001.6 shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for at
least three months and not exceeding six months, or, if granted
probation, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is
suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be
imprisoned in a county jail for at least three months.
(2) Every person convicted under this section who has previously
been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this
chapter, if probation is granted, or if the execution or imposition
of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or
she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.
(e) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence as
specified in subdivision (d), except in unusual cases where the
interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or
suspending the imposition or execution of sentence without the
minimum imprisonment required in subdivision (d) or by granting
probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence with
conditions other than those set forth in subdivision (d), in which
case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the
minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice
would best be served by that disposition.
(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section.
(g) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the
firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the
firearm either lawfully owns the firearm or has the permission of the
lawful owner or a person who otherwise has apparent authority to
possess or have custody of the firearm. A person who takes a firearm
without the permission of the lawful owner or without the permission
of a person who has lawful custody of the firearm does not have
lawful possession of the firearm.
(h) (1) The district attorney of each county shall submit annually
a report on or before June 30, to the Attorney General consisting of
profiles by race, age, gender, and ethnicity of any person charged
with a felony or a misdemeanor under this section and any other
offense charged in the same complaint, indictment, or information.
(2) The Attorney General shall submit annually, a report on or
before December 31, to the Legislature compiling all of the reports
submitted pursuant to paragraph (1).
(3) This subdivision shall remain operative until January 1, 2005,
and as of that date shall be repealed

[bc6854]

Sasha, Am i right in thinking that there is a big difference when the weapon is concealed versus visibly carried? By the way I notice you are in Idaho, where? I was born in Payette and still have family in the area. Bob

[Sasha]

Sasha, Am i right in thinking that there is a big difference when the weapon is concealed versus visibly carried? By the way I notice you are in Idaho, where? I was born in Payette and still have family in the area. Bob

Yup there is a huge difference between the two. I wanted to find some PC on the matter for Mike to read through. I also noticed on the CDFG site that they sat it is ok as long as it is an area where you are allowed to discharge a firearm. Honestly I am kind of glad I do not have to deal with all that crap anymore. Up here I just put on my holster, put my weapon in the holster and go. I am in the Boise area, I moved up here a little over a year ago. I was lucky when I lived in CA though as it is easy to get a CCW in Kern Co.

[Sasha]

Here is some info I found on the FAQ section on the CDFG site (sorry I have not found PC for this yet).

Question:
Am I allowed to possess a loaded sidearm while fishing in the back country? Sometimes I encounter some pretty shady people, rattlesnakes and am usually by myself. And what about if I'm bow hunting? Do I have a right to protect myself by carrying a loaded sidearm? (Adam N.)

Answer:
According to game warden Todd Tognazzini, you may carry a loaded sidearm while hunting or fishing if the possession/discharge of a firearm is legal in that area. It's best to check before your trip with the local sheriff's and police departments to see if there may be additional city, county, state and/or federal laws and ordinances prohibiting the possession of a loaded firearm in certain locations in their areas of jurisdiction. If you are fishing in a National Park, for example, then possession of a firearm is a violation of the law on those lands.

The one exception to this rule is when archery hunting during archery season or when hunting with an archery-only tag. The law says, “Archers may not possess a firearm while hunting in the field during any archery season, or while hunting during a general season under the provisions of an archery only tag. (Archery section. 354 (h) Except as provided in subsection 353(g), (which covers muzzleloader rifle/archery tags.)

[bc6854]

Your right about Kern county, when I started the ccw process the liability issues in Ca scared the * out of me, almost deciced against getting license but am glad i got it. Bob

[Sasha]

Your right about Kern county, when I started the ccw process the liability issues in Ca scared the * out of me, almost deciced against getting license but am glad i got it. Bob

Yup the process is much different up here in Idaho that is for sure

[bc6854]

Sasha, I know a United States Navy Seal who cannot get a ccw in San Diego, unbelievable!!!!!!!

[Sasha]

Sasha, I know a United States Navy Seal who cannot get a ccw in San Diego, unbelievable!!!!!!!

That is the problem with a may issue state. There are several law suits going on right now because sheriffs of certain counties seem to only issue the permits to major campaign contributors and in some counties celebrities.

[mtnguru]

Mike, of all the people who might be interested in purchasing a gun...you? I'm waiting for the punchline I thought you were scared as * of them?

Oh and as for this...

(2) cats and other animal predators that we know for sure live there

On that last trip I took up to San Berdu, it had rained a day or two before and for the most part, all signs of human traffic had been erased. I then found a fresh set of kitty tracks and it had me looking over my shoulder at every sound, I know how you feel. Then again if a cat decides it wants you for a snack, I don't think there is anything a small revolver is gonna do for you. Up here in Cuyamaca, the park rangers just captured and collared a 170 lb. cat maybe two miles from my station. It picked up the bait deer and carried (not dragged) the carcass 70 ft. before snacking on it. Scary stuff.

[darrin terry]

Of course, it's generally not the 170 lb cat you need fret over. That is a very healthy cat. It's the 80-120 lb cat that is likely to be a problem. The sick/starving and juvenile cats. Better to have a weapon that might not help than no weapon ay all. In order to survive an attack by a cat, by yourself, you are likely to have to fight. Your life or the cat's. Easily done? Probably not. Easy choice? Absolutely. Is it likely to ever be needed? Again, probably not. Call it peace of mind.

[anacrime]

You don't need a gun in the woods! Think of it this way (and I know you have first hand experience with this), you're like 2342467754532 times more likely to be injured/killed on the drive to the woods than you are when you get there. Personally if it's my time to go, I would rather die via lion/bear attack than on the 91 in Riverside. The only down side is that they usually track/kill the animal. I plan to write in my will a plea to only kill the animal if absolutely necessary (like if he actually eats me).

As for defending against pot growers, I think a gun is a bad idea. For one, they don't just carry handguns. The ones we know about each had automatic weapons. Reports of finding AK47s and other big guns are common. I think if you're stopped by four dudes who don't speak english, are carrying big guns, are probably on drugs, and have zero gun training, a gun on you is the last thing they want to see. I started bringing my wallet, cell phone, and cash with me when I go way back just as a bit of bargaining power and "insurance" that I'm not a cop. In my opinion, the last thing they want to do is shoot you, which would no doubt lead to an instant manhunt. Further, if they let you go, they know that even if you do report them, it will take a long time (or never) for authorities to actually get in there. And even when/if they do, these guys have been known to disappear beyond even the most experienced trackers.

When I first found out about the local incidents earlier this year I was really upset / depressed. I felt like the woods were the only place I could truly be free, and then I felt like I was in chains. A prisoner in my own home with limits to where and how far I could go. I now have that "* it" attitude. I'm gonna go wherever I want and if something happens, * it. Man can't live in chains. We need freedom and we need the woods. I believe a gun in the woods is a crutch, a sign of weakness, and the product of fear. We can't live in fear. "To be free in the woods, you must be free in yourself"

And ya, there are many pro-gun dudes on here. This is merely how I feel. If you feel you NEED a gun to feel safe, then to each his own.

[darrin terry]

I know what you mean Shane. But I don't necessarily agree 100%. And that's cool with me. It's also about the right to protect oneself while out there. Personal choices. Like you I'd rather die out there doing something I love. But I'd also like to think I'm gonna be prepared to fight to stay alive so I can continue doing the things I love.

No argument on my opinion. Not arguing against yours. As long as we have the right to choose for ourselves. I'll not urge Mike, you or anyone else to jump into the choice of carrying. It has some pretty heady responsibilites that come with that choice.

Whatever any of us choose on these matters, think about it carefully. Don't jump to a decision. Consider. Then go with your best determination. It is your choice either way.