New etiquette for the Lower Owens.

[fly addict]

New etiquette for the Lower Owens.
Andre and I were fishing this weekend and we ran into Pat at a parking spot we were thinking of fishing. We asked him if he was going up or down stream. That is when he decides to lecture us on proper etiquette for fishing the lower Owens. This is not the first time I have run into Pat on Eastern Sierra Rivers and every time he likes to push his way around.

Here is the etiquette for fishing the lower Owens or any other stream according to Pat Jaeger.

First. If you see a car parked in any of the pull-outs along Chalk Bluff Road you can’t stop. You need to keep going till you find one that is empty. Pat does not follow this rule, I have seen him stop and park on the East Walker with other cars already parked in the same spot.

Second. If you are in a spot and are catching fish, you need to stop fishing and let someone else fish it. You can’t hog a good spot. I don’t know how this would ever be a problem if only one car was using each pull out. I think what it means is if Pat shows up with his clients you must leave. That is what he tried to do with Eric and I a few years ago on the East Walker.

Pat must have been passed over for recess monitor as a kid. He seems to always tell people how and where they can fish. I have run into other guides on the rivers up there and have never had any issues with any of them. I understand that most of the other guides up there think Pat is an idiot.

[planettrout]

FA,

I have not has the dis-pleasure of running into this guy...yet. A quick check of his creds states that he has been guiding since 1995...he is one of those clowns that that have proliferated up there since "THE MOVIE" ...Some of them think they own the water.

PT/TB

[midger]

New etiquette for the Lower Owens.
I have run into other guides on the rivers up there and have never had any issues with any of them. I understand that most of the other guides up there think Pat is an idiot.

If that's the case, why is he still a guide and which shop does he work out of?

Over the years, I've found a number of guides who violate the etiquette of fly fishing in an effort to give their clients a leg up. I imagine they feel their tips will be proportionate to the success of their "sports".

[fshflys]

I had a guide put a 10 yr old 10 ft upstream from me on Hot Creek, I wanted to start yelling profanities about how this is NOT the way to teach the young how to fish!

Pat guided a friend for his Bachelor party, he more or less told everyone to go downstream & he would take his client upstream to teach him his secrets. That's when I no longer had respect for him.

[fly addict]

Mike,
He used to work for Trout * in Mammoth, at this time he’s an independent.

[BrownBear]

Actually pretty common on a lot of waters, with few good solutions and a lot of bad ones. Confrontation is at the bottom of the list. But there are "gorilla" tactics that make you feel better, whether they work or not.

We had one guide here who was BAD. He made the mistake of contributing a chapter to a book on AK fly fishing, in which he did a whole lot of kiss and tell on waters all over this region, but when it came to his "home" waters he actually wrote how bad it was and discouraged people from fishing there! Our solution was easy. Any time he brought clients within ear shot we'd start talking about the book (in loud voices of course!) and how bad the fishing was right there, telling each other to go read the chapter in the book for proof. Pretty quick, the last thing that guide wanted was having his clients within earshot of ANYONE!

Another guide hadn't written any chapters, but was worse than worse about trying to run the fishing scene on any waters he visited. A creative sort had a bunch of bumper stickers made up with a statement that started "I am a ....." and passed them out to all of us with instructions to stick them on the bumper of this guy's van every time he pulled a stunt. And they had really good glue!!!! The guide got absolutely frantic after a while, actually leaving his clients and following people up to the road any time he ran someone off the water. I can't imagine how many razor blades he went through, scraping those things off his rig. But he sure got reluctant to park anywhere close to other folks!!!!

It also helped that any time he got clients too close to a group of us, we'd carry on a conversation about fishing etiquette. In loud voices, of course!

[WanderingBlues]

Funny you should mention him... A couple of weekends ago when I was getting in my last session for the year, he crashed us. I was fishing with a friend who's really new and really unsteady at the wading game. We were above the campground at PVR when he pull's above us and takes his client down to the water.

We are maybe 20 yds short of him and working up. He takes the client back up to get waders on, etc, and crashes in just as we are going by. He then proceeds to walk up with his client, who was a young teen. His mom and dad were above taking pics of the timeless moment so, in a rare moment of reserve, I didn't act like a douche.

Whatever..

[John Harper]

I hate bullies, alway have. Look forward to meeting him someday. Hope he's a good swimmer.

I ran into a female guide, Beryl something or other. She was very pleasant and friendly.

John

[Papasequoia]

New etiquette for the Lower Owens.
Andre and I were fishing this weekend and we ran into Pat at a parking spot we were thinking of fishing. We asked him if he was going up or down stream. That is when he decides to lecture us on proper etiquette for fishing the lower Owens. This is not the first time I have run into Pat on Eastern Sierra Rivers and every time he likes to push his way around.

Here is the etiquette for fishing the lower Owens or any other stream according to Pat Jaeger.

First. If you see a car parked in any of the pull-outs along Chalk Bluff Road you can’t stop. You need to keep going till you find one that is empty. Pat does not follow this rule, I have seen him stop and park on the East Walker with other cars already parked in the same spot.

Second. If you are in a spot and are catching fish, you need to stop fishing and let someone else fish it. You can’t hog a good spot. I don’t know how this would ever be a problem if only one car was using each pull out. I think what it means is if Pat shows up with his clients you must leave. That is what he tried to do with Eric and I a few years ago on the East Walker.

Pat must have been passed over for recess monitor as a kid. He seems to always tell people how and where they can fish. I have run into other guides on the rivers up there and have never had any issues with any of them. I understand that most of the other guides up there think Pat is an idiot.

I hope you sent him a link to this?

[clee]

EFF that guy.

[k9mark]

Running into this guy would be an unpleasant experience for him.

[lucfish]

80% of the guides are good, courteous people. That leaves 20%.

[briansII]

80% of the guides are good, courteous people. That leaves 20%.

If I hire him, would I get a 20% discount?

briansII

[RichardCullip]

80% of the guides are good, courteous people. That leaves 20%.

If I hire him, would I get a 20% discount?

briansII

You might not get a discount but he may get you into the best holes in the river - even if they are occupied. Just put some blinders on and don't make eye contact with the other fishermen. Let your guide take care of those who complain......

[jazz on the fly]

I'm not going to come on here and flame this guy on a public forum (I'll let everyone else here form their own opinions). What I will say is that he and his clients were parked there first and when we saw him, the first thing we asked was where he was planning on fishing with his clients and stated that we would go upstream or downstream of them giving him even further room to say "we're going to work our way from point x to point y" and Mark and I would have worked in another direction. He instead chose to give us a lecture on stream etiquette that didn't align with anything I have ever seen on that section of stream. I've come in and fished when others were in the general area giving them what seemed like reasonable space and had others come in when I was there some leaving reasonable space and some not, but I've never expected anyone to leave the area completely when I was there first. I made a point of asking a couple fly shop employees and guides to make sure Mark and I were not in the wrong and their opinions were unanimous that we were not at all in the wrong. I honestly felt like he was trying to bully us off of a section of water where there was more than enough room for us and his clients. If anyone is of the opinion that Mark and I were in the wrong I welcome your rational, but from what I've heard I doubt anyone feels that way.