Poor Guide Etiquette

[fflutterffly]

The drought in CA has begun to limit the volume of water, thus the area fishable. We humans are creatures of habit. There is tons of water we don't explore because we caught fish at this specific place and we are comfortable fishing there. Drive a short ways south of Bishop, turn eastward on the less traveled roads, head for the Owens. Explore. David knows those waters as well and can guide you. There are miles of dirt roads that lead to the water... take those. If you don't fish-picnic and watch the water. Fish outside the restricted water, you'd be surprised what you find-empty shores of fishing. I am guilty of 'rootfoot.' I have to migrate myself.

[BrownBear]

Try fishing the bowl at EW, you just gotta get shoulder to shoulder. I've caught fish at HC fishing a rifle that the guy ahead of me had just finished.

I jumped on the Fly bandwagon 5 or 6 years ago so I am one of the "new generation" of fly fishers, but this I think is going to only become more frequent as waters see more pressure and fly fishing sees more anglers getting into it.

When that's what it takes to catch fish, it will be time for me to take up golf. At least on the golf course, there's some semblance of order and etiquette.

One thing I've notices with some of the newer generation and less so in the older- acceptance of crowds. My wife and I frequently fish the 20 mile stretch on the Kern, but only on weekdays. Many is the weekday we've been the ONLY people on the whole stretch. But sure as shooting, if another comes along to fish the 20-mile, they'll park right behind us and come down to fish the same water we're on, usually even the same hole.

I've broken a lot of hearts in that scenario. I watch them go through the whole process of suiting out and rigging up and keep on fishing (while casting to avoid fish). I wait until they walk up and call out to my wife "Fishing just sucks today. Let's go." Funny looks on their faces as we walk away, and often as not they don't even wet a line. No matter how good the fishing was before they parked behind us, it's certainly no good if we're leaving.

[duckdog]

If you are going to fish Hot Creek you have to tolerate the crowds. that is just the way it is there.Some day's I am better able to handle the crowds than other days. It does not take much to try to observe which direction people are working or to just ask. Even during the week it can be packed. I will just walk until I find a place where I will not be stepping on some one. If there just isn't room i'll either leave or just sit down , relax and watch . When a spot opens , I'll fish. There are a lot of fish in that little creek and they see alot of people. On the lower O I will not tolerate crowding as much. There is less reason for it. If some one comes and starts fishing within casting distance of me I won't say a word ,i'll just start casting right in front of them , every cast will be right there. Hot creek is the same , if I can cast in front of you , you are too close. I am not talking 90 foot distance casts ,I mean just normal Hot Creek fishing distance .Especially if you just walk up and don't ask which way I am going.
A few years ago I was working my way up a run on the lower O , casting to rising fish during a BWO hatch and some guy just walks up above me about 20 feet ,and I really mean 20 feet . He looks at me, not a word, not even a hello,just stink eye's me and starts casting to those fish as if I just didn't exist. I stopped fishing and just waited until a fish rose in front of him and put a cast on that fish before he could, every time. I had fish right in front of me and below me but a point needed to be made. It was not even crowded that day , there was no reason for him to step on me like that, period. It took him a while to get it , but he left that spot fish less never acknowledging my existence but I made damned sure he knew I was there . And the thing is if he would have just smiled said hello and asked if I minded if he tried for those fish I would have said go for it.
Being considerate and having manners is just not that hard, and it will open way more doors than it closes. Most of us travel a long way to fish the east side.If you get to where you want to fish and it is packed , but you really want to fish that particular piece of water and don't want to leave, take a seat and relax. Just being there is a big part of why we go to the east side. When room opens up, fish. next time get there earlier.

[Chris Kuhn]

Thats a tough one, I've been on HC, Upper and Lower and had people jump a pool ahead of me. I had a guide bring some clients right above me once on HC as well. I live in the Inland Empire, so for me its a 6 hour drive to the Upper/Mammoth, its hard to drive up that far and arrive at a stream where there is ALOT of fishing pressure and just decide to not fish it because there are other people there.

I know I have also unknowingly encroached on other fisherman, but mostly for the same reason, I drove a long way to fish, and there's only so much space on Hot Creek...

Try fishing the bowl at EW, you just gotta get shoulder to shoulder. I've caught fish at HC fishing a rifle that the guy ahead of me had just finished.

I jumped on the Fly bandwagon 5 or 6 years ago so I am one of the "new generation" of fly fishers, but this I think is going to only become more frequent as waters see more pressure and fly fishing sees more anglers getting into it.

Coming from back east, we have a different ethic. If I am fishing a pool, I have no claim to the pool below me or above me. As long as their drifts do not intersect mine, I do not complain. When I am done with the pool I am fishing, I get out of the water and move until I find a pool that is not being fished. At the same time, If I am arriving at a river, I will generally try to stay at least two or three pools away from whomever else is fishing. It sounds like HC fishes more like an eastern river than a western river where people expect a thousand yards or more between fishermen.

[WanderingBlues]

It sounds like HC fishes more like an eastern river than a western river where people expect a thousand yards or more between fishermen.

I remember the first time I fished HC, a gentleman commented that I was 'supposed to pick a spot and stay in it.' I told him if a spot wasn't producing and something upstream was open, I'd continue to move. I never infringed on his area, but the message I got was that of entitlement for that water. Now, my rule is an early AM run, and leave when the 1st of the crowd starts to show, or come just before dusk when they're leaving.

[Chris Kuhn]

It sounds like HC fishes more like an eastern river than a western river where people expect a thousand yards or more between fishermen.

I remember the first time I fished HC, a gentleman commented that I was 'supposed to pick a spot and stay in it.' I told him if a spot wasn't producing and something upstream was open, I'd continue to move. I never infringed on his area, but the message I got was that of entitlement for that water. Now, my rule is an early AM run, and leave when the 1st of the crowd starts to show, or come just before dusk when they're leaving.

See I would think the more polite thing would be to catch a few fish, move on an give another guy a shot. I have seen guys do both. I would hate it when the former was fishing my favorite spot on a river. But then if I really wanted it, I shoulda got there earlier.

It is fishing, I do it to get away from drama. I just do whatever I can to not aggravate anyone. I don't let much bother me. The beauty is, if I am fishing your favorite hole, there will still be plenty of fish there when I leave. lol

[flocktothewall]

When that's what it takes to catch fish, it will be time for me to take up golf. At least on the golf course, there's some semblance of order and etiquette.

I've had ALOT of golf balls fly over my head by the impatient group behind me, or have had people take my ball because they thought they could. Not to mention the guys who get drunk by hole 9... and drive the carts like they're in formula 1. In anything, common sense doesn't seem to be so common, and human etiquette doesn't seem to be first nature either.

I'm sorry that you feel the younger generation of Fly Fishers has less manners, as a part of that younger generation I've made my share of * moves on the water, but mostly out of naivety or not knowing what the 'rules' were. In my limited experience, age hasn't been a determining factor of * on the water. A * is a *, whether he's 20 or 60 uses a fly or a lure, and it seems like the people who are * are either naive as to what is right, or they just don't care.

[Chris Kuhn]

Well there is something to the fact that many of these "rules" are not written anywhere and vary to some extent based on the region, the river and the species you are fishing for.

For example when salmon fishing in Pulaski, NY this is perfectly acceptable and same goes for steel head in Erie.



This however would not work on any of our local rivers.

I am often at a loss at what is acceptable behavior. Basically I try to stay away and move on whenever I get the stink eye.