Short rods- 6'- 7'

[jaydubp]

I want to buy a 6' to 7' 2wt or 3wt to cast 10' to 25' just in case I fish some small water this year.

Not sure if I am being smart trying to buy the best tool for the task, or I am being old and cheap, or if I am considering a manual transmission Ferrari (or a raised 4x4) for use only in stop & go commute traffic?

Please give me your thoughts-- is my logic is wrong or have forgotten something important-- or am I suffering from lockdown and overthinking this?

RODS:
Over the years I have gravitated to Sage, Winston and Hardy with a couple of Echo nymping rods- but rods were 8- 12ft and I could tell differences in feel, casting, accuracy, and especially how I feel after a day on the water.

My indoor testing of short rods has me thinking a beautiful casting rod (read: expensive, well-made) would be wasted when the majority of casts are flips, bow casts or roll casts at short distances where I could almost throw the line as far without any rod.

In my testing of short rods I can tell broomsticks from noodles, flex point, overall weight, and appearance but not much difference in actual casting. The top of the line Winston Pure and Sage Dart ($750- $900) are wonderful rods, but they do not cast 10'- 25' dramatically better than the $130- $150 TFO Finesse or the Fenwick Aetos (now sold under Grey's label). Fiberglass and soft graphite rods feel close at 6' - 7'- but graphite rods are lighter. Not much difference in accuracy until I went out well past 25'.

Using a Rio Creek line instead of a normal WF or DT made more difference than any rod.

REELS: In creek fishing, won't the reel just hold the excess line- most fish will be landed by hand lining. A click & pawl drag should be more than enough.

OVERALL: MY brain tells me the best tools would be a $80 line on a $150 rod with a $50 reel but the Winston sure does stroke my ego-- even though the fish do not care.

[rayfound]

When I fished a lot I fished a lot of small creeks. I eventually came to prefer the 7.5-8' length pretty dramatically over the 6-7ft lengths. My "explanation of my experience for why was basically this:

1. Longer tip section improved sensitivity/tippet protection. (having more rod overall meant the soft tip could be better)
2. anything under 8' was "short enough" to be good at staying out of trees, etc...
3. The 6-7 foot rods were noticeably worse at managing short presentations - high sticking, holding line out of tailouts, mending, etc... at 10-20 feet the longer rods just handle the job a lot better IMO.

My Sage TXL #00 7'10" is a delightful weapon for this task, I only wish it was 4-5 pieces instead of 3 for packability sake.

NOTE: I have referred to 6-7 foot rods... I have only ever really used 6'0 and 6'6" rods in this class... I've used 7'6" and 7'10" in the 7-8 class and like them better. I don't actually have an opinion besides my inference on rods between 6.5 and 7.5 foot.


FWIW - DublHaul Andy and I came at fishing creeks almost entirely differently, and he prefers a short 6-6.6' rod IIRC: I would crouch, sneak, and climb my way up close to the pockets and fish within 12-18 feet... Andy likes to find a clear chute where he can cast and land a fly 20-35' upstream... so my perspective definitely isn't the only one.

Edit: I agree reel doesn't matter, line does... rod I think matters but I think for the way I fish creeks weight is actually a critical consideration. (holding rod high to control line a lot)

[lucfish]

In the eighties I purchased a Winston IM6 two piece, two weight, 7 foot long and paired it with an Abel TR light reel. Out of the twenty odd rods I have it is my favorite, by far. It will cast a dry effectively to about 40 feet and is soft enough for delicate presentations. Kind of soft, almost like fiberglass, but not quite. I don't use it too much anymore, as I don't fish the locals too much, body and all, but you don't have enough money for me to ever part with it. Agree line makes a difference, reels are just for storage, but if you have the bucks......




Rod can handle good size fish too, not just 10 inchers.

[Dry Fly Rie]

I don't have or use a wide array of rods and none of them are high end, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt...

...but I've used a 7 footer and an 8 footer extensively on small creeks, and for me, I greatly prefer the 8'. The majority of my "casts" are dips, daps, flips, and bow-and-arrow slings, and for me, I like the added length of the slightly longer rod. I find the extra length allows me to reach further without having to cast over a pool of skittish fish. A lot of the time, I can just reach out from a concealed position and drop my fly on the target. I've found it's also easier to high stick and keep my line off the water with a longer rod.

Reel won't matter, cause if you're fishing small water, there won't be any long runs.

Good luck with your decision/purchase.

[Bernard]

Fun topic and I am not sure if there are any perfect answers or bad answers ... For a chuckle, I have a good friend who buys used "crappy" brands off of ebay; barely functional gear for local streams because, as has been mentioned, one isn't necessarily watching a fish go into your backing as it heads for Catalina. He'll sometimes spruce up the rigs with repairs on loose guides etc and leave it at that. This is partially because he hates breaking valuable rods. Crazier yet, he has a soft spot for those crazy old-school spring-loaded automatic reels. I've watched him humor me as he fought the fish off of the spring. Not exactly my style but all in good fun. I will offer one product endorsement which is the Redington Zero reel. Light as a feather, simple in function and inexpensive. I have one loaded with 1/2 of a 5st DT Rio line and about 40 feet of backing while my wife has the other half on her reel.It's funny when once in a while I need to cast beyond the half-way mark. It's also rare. We use 4 and 5wt rods between 7-9" including a Cabela's Stowaway 7'6" that performs great. In the Sierra we frequent streams where a 9" rod isn't an issue due to brush etc. but locally I do see the value of a shorter rod. Let us know what you wind up going with.
Bernard

[DubL HauL]

Wow Luc nice fish! Think I like the looks of the Winston too. I'll agree to most of the points here the shorter 6'6" rods for me cast great but as mentioned think they fall short in line control. Currently I've been using a Redington 7'6" 2wt classic trout and like it maybe more than the 6'6".

[jaydubp]

Wow Luc nice fish! Think I like the looks of the Winston too. I'll agree to most of the points here the shorter 6'6" rods for me cast great but as mentioned think they fall short in line control. Currently I've been using a Redington 7'6" 2wt classic trout and like it maybe more than the 6'6".

What line are you using on the CT 2wt 7'6" ? It is a finalist in my search.

Jim

[John Harper]

Wow Luc nice fish! Think I like the looks of the Winston too. I'll agree to most of the points here the shorter 6'6" rods for me cast great but as mentioned think they fall short in line control. Currently I've been using a Redington 7'6" 2wt classic trout and like it maybe more than the 6'6".

What line are you using on the CT 2wt 7'6" ? It is a finalist in my search.

Jim

I've used a CT 7"6" 3wt for years now, I love it.

John

[Artin]

Haven’t seen anything about Orvis. I have an Orvis Superfine 6’ 2wt. It’s a fantastic rod. Casts those distances well. Although they don’t have the graphite one anymore (I bought the last one from the Pasadena store) they do offer it in glass which is also a great little rod. It’s stellar for small creeks and small fish.

Artin

[FIGHTONSC]

Jim,

Here’s the link to a little 6’2” two weight small creek rod that I posted about back in 2015.

I realize that some of you younger fellas probably don’t even know what fiberglass is, but the “old school” technology is a lot fun to use and still catches a few fish.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11670

Regards,

Jeff

[jaydubp]

Thanks to everyone for the input. You helped me realize that what I wanted was not where I started- or maybe I still need a short rod just because.

FIGHTONSC- Jeff, after your post I remembered I have my first fly rod; a circa 60's, 7ft Eagle Claw 6wt fiberglass plus the reel & line that came with. Great casting but too heavy. I went to Cabela's Boomtown (2 miles as crow flies, just across the Truckee River) where a great guy in the fly shop said he thought the fiberglass rods were going to be on sale soon but smallest they had in stock was a 4wt. He pushed me towards Redington.

I realized I wanted a 2wt more than a short rod-- and based on input from Dubl Haul (Andy) and John Harper I settled on the Redington Classic Trout Rod -- at 7'6" in 2wt (open box) and paired it with a used Orvis Battenkill I click reel and Rio LT line. At 2.8oz, the Battenkill I is the perfect balance.

Bernard recommended the Redington Zero reel but the drag is not adjustable so I went for the used Battenkill I.
I know drag does not matter on smaller waters, but I like the fact I have it just in case.

I will post a review in the Gear section after I have used it some.

Jim

[DubL HauL]

Sounds groovy also using Rio LT 2wt with Orvis CFO I disc. The new Battenkill is nice have a II for my 10ft 2wt that Jon Stanberry built.

[jaydubp]

I will post follow up reviews in the GEAR section as I use the Redington Classic Trout 7'6", 2wt. Too much wind and blowing snow in past few weeks to use a 2wt.

Jim

[clee]

I absolutely love short small creek rods. My collection in that category includes a 4'9" 2/3 wt rod I bought in Japan, 6' Orvis Superfine Carbon 2wt, 6'6" GLoomis GL3 3wt, 6'9" TFO Finesse Trout 1 wt, and a number of small creek rods that fall in the 7'6"- 8 ft and beyond category.

I tend to agree with you. My opinion is spend as much as you like. Personally these rods generally aren't fished for technical waters so spending more isn't necessarily cost efficient. The 1 wt TFO was bought for $145 on sale as the line has been discontinued. It's not a premium rod by any stretch but I enjoyed fishing it this summer in our locals. At that price with all the bushwacking necessary for small creek fishing if I break it it won't hurt me too much.

Though I have some premium reels to match these rods I say its 100% unnecessary. Spend more on the rod and cheap out on the reel. The reel is only there to manage line. An echo base is like $50. I would get a nicer line though. I'd also get a DT as they generally land softer and you get two lines in one.

While I wouldn't recommend it these rods can be used for catching something beyond hand size fish. I took my Orvis 2 wt on a stream that I thought only had small brookies and manged a hog holdover from the lake.

[McFlyfi]

... GLoomis GL3 3wt...

I bought my wife a GL3 3 3wt for Christmas in 199x, she promptly caught a 19" lake trout out of Donner Lake the next day. She broke it recently and has some $600+ replacement 4 wt. That GL3 was an awesome rod. I tried to fish it every chance I had. Never got to use it much as I couldn't pry it out of her hands...