Warranties

[briansII]

The wading boot thread got me thinking.....dangerous, I know. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so i'll start a new one.

Some comments about LL Bean and Patagonia. In my experience, LL Bean and Patagonia have one of the best warranty and customer service policies out there. I've gone through about 3 pairs of Bean, lightweight, wading boots. Sent a couple back because I blew out the seams in the first year. Promptly replaced, no questions asked....same deal with Bean waders. While I know LL Bean would continue to replace stuff, at some point I just stop sending things back. It just doesn't feel right to continue using the warranty. My bestest fishin' partner(God rest his soul)had several pairs(5?) of Patagonia wading boots replaced. Each time Patagonia upgraded him to the newer models....and each time something went wrong with them within the first year. One time the strap to pull them on, came off the first or second time he used them. Last time the soles started to come off. Like me, he didn't feel like sending them back AGAIN. No doubt, Patagonia would have replaced them.

When is enough, enough? Personally, I don't want to see a good company lose money on my purchase. Sure they have some responsibility to back their product, but......... I will continue to spend my money at Bean and Patagonia, because I like to support good companies. I'm a little pickier on what I buy, but I still do.

My views on rod warranty varies a bit.

briansII

[theokieangler]

What are your thoughts on rod warranties? I wonder how much it really cuts into the manufacturer's bottom line. This article made me think a little bit.
http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/gear/matthews_rod_warranties.aspx
I had a buddy take off from the river with his rod on top of the car... never saw it again. Sure would be nice to have loss coverage from a private insurer.

[midger]

I've had excellent luck with Patagonia (they've replaced 2 pair of waders and wading boots for me with no charge), good luck with Ross who repaired a G2 at no cost, good luck with Albright on a reel I returned (Bugati), and Sage rods has been pretty responsive, replacing the tip on my RPL, a VT2, and a Light Line over the past 25 years. That being said, the rod warranty repair costs are climbing in price, as what was once free now costs $50 plus shipping--at least for sage rods. Far from free now and it's getting to the point that I can build a new Forecast rod for about what it costs for the warranty repair--granted the rod I build isn't a Sage but I like the actions on those RX6 blanks nonetheless.

I don't have any experience with the rest as I've not needed service on the other items. My Marryat reels, Abel reels, other brands of rods have not experienced any failures.

[NorcalBob]

One little flaw with the Mid Current article. It doesn't take into account the profit margin benefit that rod makers get by selling their top end rods. Very few people would spring for a $750 fly rod if they were not covered under some sort of warranty deal. Rod makers are certainly taking a bath on the lower end rods that come with warranty, but the money can be made up with the profit margin from high end rod sales. And face it, it doesn't cost that much more to make a Z-Axis versus a Launch (in material costs), but there is sure a huge margin difference between the two!

[Gary C.]

I think that NorcalBob makes a very good point. When I first read this post earlier I almost asked the question:
If you had the option of buying a $750 rod whith a life time warranty or the exact same rod for $200 with a 3yr warranty which would you buy? Of course I don't have exact figures but I imagine you see what I'm getting at. IMO competition for our patronage and our desire for extended warranties on items that were once a little more expensive has caused prices to become very inflated.
Gary C.

[Flyjunkie]

It may not Cost much more to make a Z Axis verses a Launch.. But a Z axis out performs a Launch in ever aspect.. Better Grade of Graphite and Components, a Lighter rod, sweeter casting ability, You feel subtler Takes better.. Premium Rods almost cast & land Fish for You.

It's like comparing a Ford Fiesta to a Porsche 911.. There's no Real comparison...

[briansII]

One little flaw with the Mid Current article. It doesn't take into account the profit margin benefit that rod makers get by selling their top end rods. Very few people would spring for a $750 fly rod if they were not covered under some sort of warranty deal. Rod makers are certainly taking a bath on the lower end rods that come with warranty, but the money can be made up with the profit margin from high end rod sales. And face it, it doesn't cost that much more to make a Z-Axis versus a Launch (in material costs), but there is sure a huge margin difference between the two!

Agreed. I also see some possible problems with privately insuring rods. One, the stated insurance premuium($75) may be in the ballpark, but i'm sure will vary widely. As a buyer of a new rod, i'd much rather go with a manufacturer's warranty, than an insurance company's replacement policy. I seriously doubt an insurer will have a no questions asked policy. It's someone's job at the insurance company to review, and validate each claim. Insurance fraud is VERY high on their claims office/adjusters list. I wouldn't want the added hassles, and extended time dealing with a private insurer. Back to the $75 off on a premium rod. I gladly pay an extra $75 for the rod, rather than deal with an insurance company. The discount would have to be substantially larger, to make it worthwhile. This kind of leads into what the actual cost of a rod, to the maker. What's their markup on high end rods. I don't know, but I _think_ the warranty is somehow factored into the retail price. Does it cost them $200, $400 to build a $700 rod?? Like the article said, i'm sure they are getting hurt on the lower priced rods....especially the ones still made in the US.

I'm a bit conflicted. I want all the rod manufacturers to make money. Heck, i'd like them to be wealthy....I'll try and not break anymore rods. But I also would like to think think if I pay a "premium" for a high end rod, I would like to get some sort of warranty with it. As it is, I feel we already pay a premium for "fly fishing" gear.

briansII

[Papasequoia]

Unlike other sporting goods items that have high end models (tennis racquets, golf clubs, etc.) fly rods are extremely breakable. There is no way I would buy a high end rod without a warranty. Can you imagine spending $750 on a fly rod and breaking it first time out? Or any time out for that matter. I don't make enough money for those kinds of risks and as Brian commented, I don't trust insurance agents either. Without the warranty I would buy a much cheaper rod and just deal with it. Not to mention the fact that $750 is ridiculous anyways. For that amount of money it should have an attachment that will give you a BJ.

I think most warranty claims on other things can be dictated by common sense. I would expect anything from a jacket to wading boots and waders to last more than a year. If seams are blowing out, gore-tex is delaminating, etc. I have no problems sending it back, and if the replacement does the same thing in a short period of time I would send it back too. However, after a certain period of time (depending on the article and the amount of wear and tear) one does have to be more ethical and just buy a new item.