Am I over reacting?

[Wildman]

At one time I entertained the notion of doing some writing but have settled for an occaisonal post and story on the two forums I frequent.

By the way....the going rate at the magazine in question for a complete story with pictures is $400.

[aaron otto]

Very passionate angler X. I love it. Assuming a need for income is the wrong way to go.

If indeed the major issue is Lurking bait dunkers on sites, it is hard for me to comment. I don't have any experience or spoke to anyone that does that. Most of the conventional anglers I fish with are bass or Muskie chasers. Hiking off trail to catch a twelve-inch trout doesn't even blip on their radar. I think it may be possible though that there are anglers (non-fly) guys lurking on fly sites. However, I still don't think there are non-fly anglers in significant numbers standing in line at Barnes and Nobles waiting for the most recent fly rag to come out. The sales just don't support that claim at newsstand or subscription based. Most of the gear guys I know would say, "Fly-Rod & What? Huh?" (Not picking on that mag at all, just title fit)

I think we're on the same track here at least in my mind. The scenario is mostly non-fly anglers hurting water by not being conscious of proper stream edicit or regulations. With your very good example, you have folks breaking laws. You also, have laws not being enforced. However, all the blame can't be solely on the author or the magazine that spotted the location. If I told someone that x stretch of road is a great drive with twists and turns. That someone went out and drove so fast they had an accident and killed another driver. Whose fault is it? The person who pointed out how nice the road was or the speeder? The argument is in its nature convenient, but not sound Also, pointing at people lurking on sites to sift info, that seems the contributors of that site’s issue. With the advent of easy access to info and high-speed hookups on every corner, the spread of knowledge will continue to accelerate at faster and faster speeds. This is inevitable so fighting progress, and however romantic a notion another losing battle.

I too agree with you, this topic is a bit ridiculous. It's often touted loudly, but supported by circular logic. In truth, I'm not all that passionate about it. My only reason for piping in was this board has been relatively safe place for folks such as me to post on. It's nice to be able to post pictures and not have someone send you a death threat about a piece of water that is in every book on the planet for that area.

You may be able to take solace in this; print as we know it today, unfortunately is showing all the signs of a dying industry. Even though I don’t' know you or your name, I offer you this. Come down here to Arizona, you can stay at my place and I will take you fishing. We can go to a couple spots still unknown to the masses far off the beaten-trail.

In essence that is all we are, visitors of the water anyways. Being able to share those places so special is part of that journey. I'm happy to share a couple with you.

A

[aaron otto]

Your dead on brother in a number of spots!

I didn't say I don't get paid for it. All dollars made however get do donated to one of three causes: TU, Cast for a Cure (my mother and m-in-law are survivors), and the local Boy scout troop here. They do a fly fishing badge.

Anyways, I've had four death threats so far in 2.5 years from two seperate articles. All about water that is in the state guide to fishing AZ.

My motivation to keep doing any of it, varies based upon the day. Boiling down to a couple core thoughts or notions.

I am chained to corporate America. I know others are too. So I will set myself for the laughter and teasing here, but it's as honest as it can get: Every time I click my shutter, every time I write a story it’s in the vein of giving the viewer/ reader one second away from the walled up existence we've all been lead to live. Let's face it we all would take more time on the water, but the reality of it is, that isn't possible nearly as much as we wish it could be. I will be the very first person to admit both my writing and photography leave a lot to be desired. But, if I can give someone that feeling of being there, while they're really in front of their monitor at work or on a conference call.. well that is what I'm after. Who knows if that ever happens, but the thought that it could keeps me taking pictures and telling the stories of my days on the water. So to answer the question about motivation: I have spent my entire adult life doing something I hate, in order to do this (fish), something I love. I can't be the only one.

A lot of times, the folks who are blasting away at authors on boards, have really never spent time talking to any one of them. LOL, not to long ago we had someone on here just doing that after me. Even though we ran into each other the very weekend before in gas station. We talked and not one word to my face. The feeding over the hype and other's hype get's people frenzied. When the group mentality sinks in, it is a very hard ball to stop rolling.

In truth, I've architected my entire life around the water, my mistress has fins. Hence my inital reasoning for jumping into the thread. It's not to change anyones minds or push people to think one way or the other. It's hopefully to show a slight glimps of the topic through my lens.

Let me know if you make it down this way. There's a key under the mat for you.

[NorcalBob]

<<<I am chained to corporate America. I know others are too. So I will set myself for the laughter and teasing here, but it's as honest as it can get: Every time I click my shutter, every time I write a story it’s in the vein of giving the viewer/ reader one second away from the walled up existence we've all been lead to live. Let's face it we all would take more time on the water, but the reality of it is, that isn't possible nearly as much as we wish it could be.>>>
Very well said!!!!!!
That's the very reason I post a lot of trips with a lot of pics. Hopefully, others will be encouraged to do the same as me, if they see me doing it. I don't really care one way or another if you choose to name the spot, but I do want to see your reports and pics about your fishing experiences. As far as debating the hot spotting issue, this is pretty much how I feel

[beachbum]

I have to say, what a great thing it is to be abe to have a logical dialogue about such a touchy subject. Well done, guys!

[darrin terry]

I have to say, what a great thing it is to be abe to have a logical dialogue about such a touchy subject. Well done, guys!

So true. As was said earlier in this thread we all see this come up occasionally, on this and other fly fishing forums. So far, it has been rare for things to progress in so civil a manner.

Well done fellas.

[BirdDog]

I do believe most flyfishermen are much more willing to go the extra distance to search out these less-used and abused places. Then, when those places are brought into a light that's brighter than the one already shining on them, some feathers are going to get a bit ruffled. I can relate to that.

I think this sums it up pretty well.....ruffled feathers. That all it is for me, sort of disapointed. I think it is so sad that people give you (Aaron) SUCH a hard time about your writings, I personally LOVE your photo essays. Maybe more effort should be put into protecting all streams against people who dont respect it, as opposed to trying to keep everything a secret form them. Idealistic probably.

[Papasequoia]

Here's a thought: all of you can send me your hotspots that you are thinking of posting (along with GPS coordinates, just to be sure). I know that it can be a real dilemma deciding whether or not to post the names and/or locations of the places you are considering. So, as a free service, I will reply to you and let you know if it is A-OK or not. Feel free to add a little postscript to your report (if you wish) that you or have or have not gotten prior approval for the addition/deletion of the watershed in question from Papasequoia (copyright). And here's the best part; I will do this as a free service! That's just the kind of guy I am (shucks). Problem solved! I'm anticipating an early flood of requests, so I have just opened another bottle of cabernet to tide me over while waiting for your PMs. Jon

[SJDrifli]

PapaS, you are truly a giving person, we all should shower you respect and admiration!

[NorcalBob]

Well PapaS, I hope you turn on your GPS receiver you put under Chris' car last year. Because Chris just went up to my TOP SECRET trophy redband spot!!!!!
Because that's the only way you're getting that spot outta me!!!!
Ohhhhhhhh, but I forgot to mention, a weld on the exhaust system broke, and they had to replace the entire exhaust system (fortunately it was under warranty because it cost about $2,500) and the repair guy mentioned that he found a little black box and removed it!!!!!

[Papasequoia]

PapaS, you are truly a giving person, we all should shower you respect and admiration!

Yes, and to think that I do it all out of a noble, selfless love for my fellow flyfishers. Sniff, sniff. It just makes me tear up sometimes.

Well PapaS, I hope you turn on your GPS receiver you put under Chris' car last year. Because Chris just went up to my TOP SECRET trophy redband spot!!!!!
Because that's the only way you're getting that spot outta me!!!!
Ohhhhhhhh, but I forgot to mention, a weld on the exhaust system broke, and they had to replace the entire exhaust system (fortunately it was under warranty because it cost about $2,500) and the repair guy mentioned that he found a little black box and removed it!!!!!

Dammit Bob! Or as the evil villains like the Riddler in the 1960's Batman TV show would have said, "Curses! Foiled again!" But wait, what am I saying? I almost forgot myself for a minute. Let me rearrange myself here back into the lotus position... palms facing upwards...Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmm It's ok, Bob. I only offered to stea...um, keep track of that secret redband spot out of a noble and selfless love of my fellow flyfishers, Ohmmmmmmmmmmm, Ohmmmmmmmmmm

[dh2x]

I would like to add a final note(maybe) about creeks like the one's mentioned in the article that sent me through the roof, season is pretty much over(Bad time to publish-There's got to be a way to do it in the winter, whenever, not now, so let's not go there). Is everybody going to be concerned about stressing out fish in warmer water or water that's gotten too small. I was in one area today(One of the one's I figured would last the longest) and she's done for the year, yes there were a few small fish but between the water getting smaller, the grass and plants getting bigger, and bugs(Did I mention the bugs ). Awhile back I figured some other creeks were done for the season, so we moved on. The problem is in some area's there's not another stream, creek, etc., ten minutes up the road. If only everywhere was like the East Side-water, water, water(Never mind they didn't have the best water year either).
Dean

[fflutterffly]

Nothing in excess is good. El Nino, articles on locations of waters, largest fish caught in an area. I'm one of those people who reads everything I can about a subject, not that it sinks in, but I read, dream and plan within my means. One resource that has opened my eyes to different waters across America is TU's show. They not only mention the rivers, but take you into the area and show you how to fish the waters, at time including flies to use. We all want the edge when it comes to effective use of our time to fish. However, I believe like so many; don't expose waters that can't take the pressure. If you are interested in knowing about 'secret waters' join a club and make some friends, rely on them for the directions and equipment. This way we keep it controlled and the decreased impact will do the area good.
Articles do an important service to use all, if they didn't we wouldn't buy them. Just be more general.

[FlyinFish]

This is the problem with our/my generation... everyone wants to get on Google, type in something like "Wild trout fishing in southern california" and be given a step my step set of instructions on where to go and how to catch the fish. That disgusts me. It breads a society of incapable people dependent on others who have no real skills or talents.

The art of exploring and adventure are lost as well as the art of friendship and conversation. I can't tell you the number of times someone will post something on a forum, when all they have to do is pick up the phone and call someone directly. I'm guilty of it too at times. In a small group setting like this forum, its more like asking your friends, but still. Some younger people (like myself) just don't realize the importance of communicating and interacting with another person. I have started to make it a point to always ask a human directly if I can, and ask several humans, if possible. Sometimes you talk to a retard that has no idea what he/she is talking about. Other times you find a very knowledgeable person who shares your interests and becomes a lifelong friend.

For example, spending 15 minutes sifting through National Forest websites looking for an opening or closing date when all one has to do is call the Ranger district and ask. You will usually get some additional information and sometimes the conversation turns into something like, "Ya, I drove up there 3 days ago... the road is pretty clear of snow/debris... only saw one person up there... he did pretty well on the trout." Point is, you can sometimes get much better information by just talking to someone. And guess what, conversations are what lead to relationships and friendships!

If I need to get some fly recommendations (me being a newbie), I could easily search the internet and several forums, but I'd rather walk into The Spot and chat with someone, either an employee or another customer. And I'd rather WALK INTO the shop and actually talk with someone (if I can) than just call them. Then the convo turns to, where are you headed, and you get pointed to other waters close by to try, or areas of those waters to search, and so on. I'll post on the forum here because, like I said, its a small group and we live all over and can't always interact face to face. But that's much different than just finding some random website posting a question out of the blue.

Don't get me wrong, the internet and media is great, but like any other form of technology, we need to use it as an assisting tool and not rely on it as the main and sole source!!

Articles on specific small waters are inherently bad. I don't see a reason to point people to these. You can always mention a region or Forest or set of mountains, etc. This, I think, is much better because if I see an article with a 12" trout caught in the "Hollywood Hills," I'm going to be scouring the area extensively! This provides motivation and encouragement to embark on the adventure yourself. It assures you the end goal exists, but it is up to you to find your way to it.

[Bakoguy]

WOW!!! All the usual suspects are here and since I never could avoid being the Devils Advocate here we go.
I too subscribe to aforementioned SWFF magazine and have considered the NWFF magazine. I subscribe so I can learn new places to fish. Some have been in Colorado, Utah etc. Recently I picked up some good Oregon info from a copy of the NWFF magazine. My Father in Law once gave me 3 years worth of California Fly Fisher. I cut all of the articles out and filed them by stream so that when I went to an area I at least had a clue.
One, I believe all of these publications to be part of a flyfishing fraternity (sorority also FF) that promotes quality fishing by quality fisher persons. They have a role in disseminating information. That information for the most part goes to people that won't ravage your fishery any more than you would theirs. Again, assuming that's one reason why a person subscribes.
There are probably less people subscribing to SWFF that might consider the Golden Trout Wilderness a destination (for 8" trout) than those that visit this web sight. When David posts a big fish from the East Walker that's okay and so should this article from the SWFF.
Two, All of the Fly Shops are another important part of the Fly Fishing ecosystem. It's not coincedence that the add promoting the GTW by the KRT is next to the article. Personally, I'd rather have GJ take someone up there than have them on their own. He feeds a family like the rest of us.
Just my toughts.